Intellect explains to Madmanna what is meant by the word Ransom in the Koranic account of Abraham offering up his son and being stopped by Allah just before he was about to stab him to death. In the biblical account there is no mention of the word ransom in connection with this event. It appears to be placed there, rather unfortunately as it does not really fit inside the context, as an Anachronism by Mohammed

Intellect said:

  1. “Do you pray for Abraham and his family daily? Muslims do that.
    Do you sacrifice ram annually like how Abraham did? Muslims do that.
    Do you perform the rituals of Abraham obedience to God? Muslims do that.
    That is the ransom of mighty sacrifice to Abraham and his family.”

I asked:

  1. Who has been ransomed by the sacrifice?
  2. Ransom means a payment to release someone who is held.
  3. Please explain. It doesn’t make sense.
  4. LikeLike
    • madmanna

      If you read the Quran, it is referring to the mighty sacrifice as a generational sacrifice for people like us Muslims to be performing after Abraham. The sacrifice is ransom to Abraham himself and not to his son according to the Quran. The provision of the ram by God Himself is a mighty one i.e. a ram from Almighty to be sacrificed. It is a mighty one and has nothing to do with a blood of human being.

      Momentous sacrifice is getting a ram out of a sudden and miraculously from God. That is momentous and mighty
      Read the Quran.
      He said: “I will go to my Lord! He will surely guide me!
      “O my Lord! Grant me a righteous (son)!”
      So We gave him the good news of a forbearing son.
      Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: “O my son! I have seen in a vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: now see what is thy view!” (The son) said: “O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if Allah so wills, one of the steadfast!”
      So when they had both submitted (to Allah), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
      We called out to him “O Abraham! …
      “Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!” – thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
      For this was a clear trial-
      And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
      And We left for him among generations (to come) in later times:
      “Peace and salutation to Abraham!”
      Thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
      For he was one of Our believing Servants.

      LikeLike

  1. The son of Abraham was ransomed by substitution of the ram in the biblical record.

    Necessary for atonement because of Abraham’s sin.

    Islam substitutes a sacrifice of the piety of Abraham being offered up by Muslims in emulation and celebration of Abraham.

    This is the idolatrous switch.

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3 Responses to Intellect explains to Madmanna what is meant by the word Ransom in the Koranic account of Abraham offering up his son and being stopped by Allah just before he was about to stab him to death. In the biblical account there is no mention of the word ransom in connection with this event. It appears to be placed there, rather unfortunately as it does not really fit inside the context, as an Anachronism by Mohammed

  1. Faiz says:

    LOL, the German pagan accuses Muslims of being “idolatrous”! That’s rich!

    Madman, you worship a man you mook! That’s idolatry. Critics of Christianity have recognized this wanton idolatry since the beginning of this pagan religion. Look at how the heretic Justin Martyr excused Christian idolatry:

    “For they proclaim our madness to consist in this, that we give to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all; for they do not discern the mystery that is herein, to which, as we make it plain to you, we pray you to give heed.”

    In contrast,emulating Abraham (pbuh) in his piety is not “idolatry”. Madman simply is making up his own definition.

    Regarding atonement, I remember having a discussion with madman a few years back (before I got to know his alter-ego) in which I repeatedly pressed to him why Jonah’s people were forgiven without any sacrifice. Despite multiple times asking him to clarify, I got no response from madman. He simply ignored the question over and over again. It seems to me that the story of Jonah really bothers these Christian nutjobs. They simply do not have an explanation for why there was no sacrifice required for the atonement of the Ninevites.

  2. θ says:

    Just as story of Jephthah in the Bible, it is obvious Abraham had made a deadly vow to sacrifice his firstborn sons, both Isaac and Ishmael, so thru his dreams God reminds him again. From Abraham’s legacy, a sin of breaking one’s vow can be atoned by a “ransom” of animal sacrifice, known as Kaffarah.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Let me repeat what I wrote many months before:
    The word for “sacrifice” (zebah) first occurs in Gen 31:54, and it has nothing to do with the atonement of sin.
    In Gen 31:54 Jacob sacrifices the animals for Peace offering, that is in the ceremony of fellowship between himself and Laban: “he offered a sacrifice (zebah) there in the hill country and invited his relatives to a meal.”

    Peace offering is offered by a unique way of being burned and being eaten at once. Only a small portion of the animal (not necessary a firstling) or grain brought to the altar is burned, and the rest of the flesh is given back to worshipers, relatives and the needy for eating.
    They may eat the flesh of animals consecrated to God (Lev 3:1-2, Lev 7:11-21), signifying a peaceful fellowship in both relations with God and his people.

    Moreover, the Jewish Passover lamb is by definition a Peace offering signifying the peace between the Jews and God – hence, as the Egyptians lost the peace with God so they received his wrath instead – not for an atonement of sin.
    Here is the logical question: If Passover were an atonement of the offenses, why would God designate one other specific offering called “Sin Offering” beside the Passover lambs?

    Genesis doesn’t teach atonement.
    Nowhere does Genesis teach atonement. The term “burnt offering” isn’t always synonymous to the propitiation or atonement of offense. It is absolutely wrong to limit the meanings of the burnt offering to a sin offering only.
    – What Abel offers with the firstling flocks is the Firstling offering (Hebrew: Bechorot).
    – What Noah offers and burns after the Flood on the altar is the Firstling offering or Peace offering, signified by equal response of God with the Noachide Covenant for the remnants of people.
    – What Melchizedek offers without sacrifice is the Thanksgiving, that is the priesthood offering with wine and bread (unleavened cakes mingled with oil, and unleavened wafers anointed with oil, and cakes of fine flour, fried mingled with oil) to thank for the victories of Abraham in the war.
    – What Abraham sacrifices in Gen 15:9 is Peace Offering, between himself and God.
    – What Abraham sacrifices in Gen 22:2 is the Firstling offering.
    – What Jacob sacrifices in Gen 31:54 is Peace offering, between people and God.
    – What Jacob sacrifices in Gen 46:1 is Peace offering, between himself and God.
    – What Moses and the Jews do on the Passover eve is Peace offering, and the lamb required for sacrifice and for eating with family in evening is not necessary the firstling lamb.

    The ram’s sacrifice Abraham does – as substitution of Isaac – is burned specifically as the Firstling offering, not as the sin offering. Since Isaac is his firstborn son, hence his substitution ram must be equally the firstling as well.
    Here is the logical question: If the ram sacrifice on Mount Moriah were a Sin Offering (which is not, since the Sin Offering doesn’t specifically require a firstling flock), why does not God command Abraham to sacrifice his slaves, hired men, maids among his households at once instead?

    In other words, the reason why God commands Abraham to sacrifice his firstborn son is, because actually what he orders is just the Firstling sacrifice. Now, since the Firstling offering is exactly what Abraham does on Mount Moriah, it means as a matter of fact God doesn’t count Abraham as a sinner at all.

    In other hands, the Jews are really commanded to burn the Sin Offering specifically – beside the Peace Offering or Passover, Thanksgiving and Firstling offering – because they were designated to bring forth a group of “holy men” who should officiate the Jewish Prophethood till time of Jesus.

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