Moses forbids women to marry their former husbands if they have divorced and married another man. Mohammed commands women to marry another man if they want to marry their previous husband after they have been divorced. Thus he commands women to break the law of Moses. Is it any wonder that Jews and Christians don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet sent from God?

Deuteronomy 24

1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.

3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;

4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Koran:

Sahih International: And if he has divorced her [for the third time], then she is not lawful to him afterward until [after] she marries a husband other than him. And if the latter husband divorces her [or dies], there is no blame upon the woman and her former husband for returning to each other if they think that they can keep [within] the limits of Allah. These are the limits of Allah , which He makes clear to a people who know.

Pickthall: And if he hath divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she hath wedded another husband. Then if he (the other husband) divorce her it is no sin for both of them that they come together again if they consider that they are able to observe the limits of Allah. These are the limits of Allah. He manifesteth them for people who have knowledge.

Yusuf Ali: So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), He cannot, after that, re-marry her until after she has married another husband and He has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. Such are the limits ordained by Allah, which He makes plain to those who understand.

Shakir: So if he divorces her she shall not be lawful to him afterwards until she marries another husband; then if he divorces her there is no blame on them both if they return to each other (by marriage), if they think that they can keep within the limits of Allah, and these are the limits of Allah which He makes clear for a people who know.

Muhammad Sarwar: After a divorce for the third time, it is not lawful for the husband to resume marital relations with her or remarry her until she has been married and divorced by another husband. In that case, there is no sin for the former husband to marry her if they (both) think that they can abide by the law. These are the laws of God. He explains them for the people of knowledge.

Mohsin Khan: And if he has divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she has married another husband. Then, if the other husband divorces her, it is no sin on both of them that they reunite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. These are the limits of Allah, which He makes plain for the people who have knowledge.

Arberry: If he divorces her finally, she shall not be lawful to him after that, until she marries another husband. If he divorces her, then it is no fault in them to return to each other, if they suppose that they will maintain God’s bounds. Those are God’s bounds; He makes them clear unto a people that have knowledge.

It is ironic that Mohammed claimed to be the fulfilment of the very law that he commanded others to break!

Advertisements
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

53 Responses to Moses forbids women to marry their former husbands if they have divorced and married another man. Mohammed commands women to marry another man if they want to marry their previous husband after they have been divorced. Thus he commands women to break the law of Moses. Is it any wonder that Jews and Christians don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet sent from God?

  1. “Thus he commands women to break the law of Moses. Is it any wonder that Jews and Christians don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet sent from God?”

    So, by that standard Jesus was not sent from god because he changed Mosaic law, like divorce, for example.

    But, being a good Christian I suppose you think we should still be killing guys for collecting sticks on the sabbath and enforcing all the rest of the nutty Mosaic laws.

  2. θ says:

    Remarriage is allowed in the Torah except for a female fornicator. Also, the Torah doesn’t forbid a man from remarrying again his former wife – with reason other than her fornication – who had married and divorced another man in the meantime.

    Deut 24:1 talks about “some uncleanness in her”, that is her fornication, especially in a case of “being defiled and losing virginity” before marriage.
    Even Jesus allows a woman to be divorced immediately by her husband if he finds that she was deflowered under her consent by other man before her marriage.
    A female fornicator then can marry other male fornicator.
    Dt 24:1
    When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

    Jesus allows a man to divorce his fornicating wife.
    Matthew 19:9,
    And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

  3. θ says:

    “Madmanna says: Is it any wonder that Jews and Christians don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet sent from God?”

    I don’t know if it is a norm in the past, but in today’s generations mostly the male converts to Islam oftentimes get radicalised so easily. Why? Because somewhat they are forced directly or indirectly to “prove themselves” by showing their overzeal. That is, to impress his new friends, or perhaps to impress his future Moslem wife and his future father-in-law.
    That weird behavior of overzeal for a show-off is not encouraged by Islam.

    The female converts to Islam are relatively cool without having a tremendous pressure to “prove” her faith to other Moslems.

  4. madmanna says:

    “Remarriage is allowed in the Torah except for a female fornicator. Also, the Torah doesn’t forbid a man from remarrying again his former wife – with reason other than her fornication – who had married and divorced another man in the meantime.”

    No, there has to be some indecency as grounds for the divorce. Moses did not allow divorce for trivial reasons as Sharia does.

  5. madmanna says:

    “The female converts to Islam are relatively cool without having a tremendous pressure to “prove” her faith to other Moslems.”

    Only the pressure of dressing correctly and not going out of the house without permission etc.

  6. madmanna says:

    ““Remarriage is allowed in the Torah except for a female fornicator.”

    It can’t be fornication because she would be stoned for adultery, being a married woman. So it has to be something short of fornication but still some kind of sexual misbehavior.

  7. madmanna says:

    “Moses allows the husband without any reason whatever to give his wife a bill of divorce, including a proper reason of illness (such as leprosy) and barrenness after decades (having no children born to them). ”

    Give some evidence from the bible or your comment will be deleted.

  8. madmanna says:

    The captive woman is not symbolical of the relationship between Israel and God therefore she comes under different laws.

  9. madmanna says:

    in fact I will delete all your comments on this thread because of your indecency.

  10. θ says:

    “madmanna says: The captive woman is not symbolical of the relationship between Israel and God therefore she comes under different laws.”

    Nevertheless, the status of a captive woman is the “wife” legally. A Jewish man is allowed to divorce his wife anytime he lost any delight in her.
    Dt 21
    13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

  11. madmanna says:

    Only in the case of the captive woman.

  12. θ says:

    Moses allows the husband without any reason whatever to give his wife a bill of divorce, including a proper reason of illness (such as leprosy) and barrenness after decades (having no children born to them).
    It is also confirmed by the school of Hillel, Philo of Alexandria (Of Special Laws Relating to Adultery 310-311) and Josephus (Antiquities.4.8).
    But lower than that of Islam, the Jewish wife has no rights whatsoever to divorce her husband.

    //www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5238-divorce
    The school of Hillel, however, held that the husband need not assign any reason whatever; that any act on her part which displeased him entitled him to give her a bill of divorce (Giṭ. ib.). The opinion of the school of Hillel prevailed. Philo of Alexandria (“Of Special Laws Relating to Adultery,” etc., ch. v.; English ed., ii. 310, 311) and Josephus (“Ant.” iv. 8) held this opinion. Jesus seems to have held the view of the school of Shammai (Matt. xix. 3-9).

  13. madmanna says:

    This does not count as evidence as it is not from the bible.

  14. θ says:
    April 30, 2017 at 10:29 pm
    “Jesus allows a man to divorce his fornicating wife.
    Matthew 19:9,”

    I suggest you back up a few verses, at least to 19:6. Jesus changed Mosaic law because it was an allowance to the hardness of men’s hearts, Jesus said “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”, a clear order against divorce. This led to the question about Moses, and Jesus clearly changed Mosaic law in the following verses, citing the reason that Mosaic law did not follow the original way of god (“but from the beginning it was not so”).

    Clearly, Jesus came to disallow the hardness of men’s hearts, to make marriage as it was to be from the beginning, by changing the laws of Moses. In this Jesus indeed brought a message of true love.

    And how about the fact that I gathered some sticks on the Sabbath? Does Jesus command you to follow Mosaic law and stone me to death?

    There are over 600 commandments in the OT. Must a Christian follow every one of them? Should the sinner be stoned? No, you say, ok, but why not? Because Jesus said ” He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”

    Jesus changed the law with his new message of love and forgiveness. I suggest you embrace that fact and adjust the argument of the OP accordingly.

  15. θ says:

    “Stardusty Psyche says: Jesus said “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”, a clear order against divorce.”

    Not known much to the Biblical knowledge of greenhorn and rookies, actually Jesus allows divorce for a man-made reason other than what God joined, i.e. fornication.
    If a female fornicator can put asunder what God joined, why not the Jewish husbands in Deut 21:14?
    Matthew 19:9,
    And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

    Dt 21
    13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

  16. madmanna says:

    The captive woman can be divorced for reasons other than uncleanness, the Israelite woman not.

  17. madmanna says:

    The first time round.

    And fornication is not a man-made reason but a sin defined by God.

  18. θ says:

    “madmanna says: Where does it say divorced because of fornication? The captive woman can be divorced for reasons other than uncleanness, the Israelite woman not.”

    Deut 21 doesn’t also say that the captive women can’t be a beautiful Israeli woman. It is possible for the Jewish men to enslave other female Israelites.
    Dt 21:14 talks about the * divorce * of the *wife* by Jewish husband, either she is Jewish or Gentile.

    It is possible for the Jewish men to enslave other female Israelites, especially after the civil war, such as Judah kingdom vs. Israel kingdom, the war between 11 tribes and Benjaminites, the kidnapping of Shiloh’s girls by Benjaminite, et cetera.
    Jud 21:21
    And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin.

  19. θ says:

    “madmanna says: fornication is not a man-made reason but a sin defined by God.”

    If divorcement by a man were a sin, isn’t it just equally as evil as a fornication committed by his wife?

  20. madmanna says:

    theta, not so much arrogance please. just stick to the arguments and leave the insults out. Or more comments will be deleted.

    to get back to the point of the thread:

    The Israelite woman is not allowed to re-marry her first husband if she has been divorced and married again. Sharia mandates this as a requirement for the re-marrying therefore Sharia is against the law of Moses.

    The captive woman is irrelevant. Her purity has not been monitored. She is unclean anyway not belonging to the house of Israel. She may or may not have been chaste and pure in her sexual life before she was captured. Therefore she is irrelevant to the argument.

  21. madmanna says:

    “It is possible for the Jewish men to enslave other female Israelites, especially after the civil war, such as Judah kingdom vs. Israel kingdom, the war between 11 tribes and Benjaminites, the kidnapping of Shiloh’s girls by Benjaminite, et cetera.”

    dont start meandering and wandering all over the place. stick to the topic. this thread is not about slavery. you are trying my patience which is wearing thin.

  22. θ says:

    Israeli daughters (not captive taken from war) can be divorced if she doesn’t get a fair treatment from her husband after marrying other women in his approved polygamous life.
    Exo 21
    10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

  23. θ says:

    “madmanna says: The Israelite woman is not allowed to re-marry her first husband if she has been divorced and married again.”

    As I said above, the Torah is silent on this. What Moses writes is just a prohibition to re-marry the unclean wives.

    “Sharia mandates this as a requirement for the re-marrying therefore Sharia is against the law of Moses.”

    Shari’ah just follows the validity of re-marriage of David and Michal under God’s approval.
    Phalti of Gallem married Michal after David went missing as a fugitive. After Saul’s death, David took over the kingship by making his re-marriage with Michal a precondition of the league. Despite Phalti’s sorrowful protest, Michal was forcibly restored to David again. Evidently David’s love of Michal remains the same as the first, even his desire to claim her is a proof how David’s affection of her is so much, even to be his queen in Hebron.

    1Sam 25:44
    But Saul had given Michal his daughter, David’s wife, to Phalti the son of Laish, which [was] of Gallim.
    2Sam 3:14
    And David sent messengers to Ishbosheth Saul’s son, saying, Deliver me my wife Michal, which I espoused to me for an hundred foreskins of the Philistines.

  24. madmanna says:

    “4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.”

    She is defiled by the second marriage which according to Sharia qualifes her to go back to her first husband whereas in the bible this disqualifies her from going back to her first husband.

  25. θ says:

    “madmanna says: She is defiled by the second marriage which according to Sharia qualifes her to go back to her first husband whereas in the bible this disqualifies her from going back to her first husband.”

    It is unlawful for any Moslem man to re-marry his unclean wife, even after she had married and got divorced by her sinful husband.
    Q.24, v.3. The male fornicator does not marry except a female fornicator or female polytheist, and none marries her except a male fornicator or a male polytheist, and that has been made unlawful to the believers.

  26. madmanna says:

    “Shari’ah just follows the validity of re-marriage of David and Michal under God’s approval.”

    She was not divorced. So there was no re-marriage.

  27. θ says:

    David fails to provide Michal with three basic duties, so she’s divorced de jure.
    Exo 21
    10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

  28. madmanna says:

    “Q.24, v.3. The male fornicator does not marry except a female fornicator”

    if the fornicators are married why did they not get stoned?

    what does fornicator mean? what have they done?

  29. θ says:

    “madmanna says: if the fornicators are married why did they not get stoned?what does fornicator mean? what have they done?”

    A Moslem fornicator remains a Moslem. Every Moslem fornicators are considered as “unmarried persons” (or divorced and widower), hence their penalty is just a scourging.

  30. madmanna says:

    Please answer my question. No evasion please. Or are your scriptures sent down by Gabriel not clear contrary to Allah’s claim that they are.

  31. madmanna says:

    David fails to provide Michal with three basic duties, so she’s divorced de jure.
    Exo 21

    David saw it differently. He demanded his wife back:

    2Sam 3:14
    And David sent messengers to Ishbosheth Saul’s son, saying, Deliver me my wife Michal, which I espoused to me for an hundred foreskins of the Philistines.

  32. madmanna says:

    “David fails to provide Michal with three basic duties, so she’s divorced de jure.”

    No, because David was hindered by Saul’s behaviour from fulfilling his duties to his wife.

  33. θ says:
    May 1, 2017 at 12:47 am

    “Stardusty Psyche says: Jesus said “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”, a clear order against divorce.”

    “Not known much to the Biblical knowledge of greenhorn and rookies, actually Jesus allows divorce for a man-made reason other than what God joined, i.e. fornication.”
    That comes later after further questioning as an exception to the rule. The fact remains that Jesus himself said Mosaic law was not as god had originally intended.

    I suggest you read with greater heart and understanding to realize how Jesus was overturning the law that allowed for the hardness of men’s hearts.

    Nor did you address the much broader fact of over 600 commandments in the OT and that Christians do not have to follow the majority of them because Jesus changed the law.

    Clearly, Jesus changed the law. Christian doctrine does not require adherence to the 600 commandments. The largest Christian denomination is very strongly opposed to capital punishment, for example, whereas in the laws of Moses capital punishment abounds.

    Jesus brought a new message of love, a new covenant, new laws, overturning much of the Mosaic law. Thus the premise of the OP is deeply flawed and should be withdrawn.

  34. madmanna says:

    What do you mean by OP Stardusty?
    Can you clarify please?

  35. θ says:

    “madmanna says: David saw it differently. He demanded his wife back:”

    In the Christian standard, David demanded back a female fornicator, right?
    Why is it okay now for a former husband to remarry a defiled woman whom Christians counted as fornicator?

    “No, because David was hindered by Saul’s behaviour from fulfilling his duties to his wife.”

    First, David could have taken his wife Michal along with him and his loyal armies.
    Secondly, David should have easily calculated that Saul would never try to harm Michal his own daughter wherever she may go away with David.
    Thirdly, knowing that he already lost his religious role as husband, David didn’t give his protest at all when Phalti married Michal.

  36. θ says:

    “Stardusty Psyche says: I suggest you read with greater heart and understanding to realize how Jesus was overturning the law that allowed for the hardness of men’s hearts.”

    Jesus just happens to live in a more fortunate time. You just don’t know nor have any idea of how much hellish the inhumane conditions were during the time of Moses.

    “Nor did you address the much broader fact of over 600 commandments in the OT and that Christians do not have to follow the majority of them because Jesus changed the law.”

    You wrongly count the Law as a burden. That’s why your heart and eyes don’t understand. You don’t see how you could have 600 glorious ways to feel the happiness of God, angels, and souls.
    Law is something that should be enjoyed, otherwise you hate it.
    When doing the Law Moslems don’t expect anything, not miracle, not reward, not any effect of the Law to the world.
    Living when doing the Law is something priceless. That’s a worship. That’s a jot of real life in the presence of God. The moment of dong the Law is the time of a “real you”.

    I appreciate if one has a good intention to make other mortals happy and smile, but their happiness is just temporary.

    “Clearly, Jesus changed the law.”

    With Law comes the worship. Without a worship, Satan wins a half way. Although Satan can’t get his main demand of receiving a worship from Jesus, but at least he succeeds to stop all Christians from worshiping God.

    “Christian doctrine does not require adherence to the 600 commandments. ”

    Christianity is a sect of agnosticism in disguise.

    “The largest Christian denomination is very strongly opposed to capital punishment, for example, whereas in the laws of Moses capital punishment abounds.”

    I am sure you don’t read that in the Tanach God has a plan to make the death penalty commuted into a more humane penalty by the rods, namely imprisonment and scourging?
    2Sam 7:14
    I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

    “Jesus brought a new message of love, a new covenant, new laws, overturning much of the Mosaic law.”

    Naivety makes Satan win a half way. Jesus happens to live in a “normal” time when Moses has managed to eliminate mostly the abnormal and unreformed pagans throughout Judea. When an unreformed heathen gets possessed by his demonic zeal with the inhumane addiction to the sufferings, only the victim’s pain makes him happy.
    Jesus didn’t meet any necromancer, satanists, cannibals, et cetera. Moses did.

    ” Thus the premise of the OP is deeply flawed and should be withdrawn.”

    No, you just don’t know nor have any idea of how much hellish the inhumane conditions were during the time of Moses.

  37. θ says:

    Jesus happens to live in a generation when the so-called “demonic plagues” do not anymore exist.
    Moses ought to do what he counts as a necessary punishment because of the more horrible consequence of demonic plagues that may spread and outbreak uncontrollably if he didn’t take the life of unreformed heathens.
    Jesus didn’t meet any necromancer, satanists, cannibals, et cetera. Moses did.

  38. madmanna says:

    “First, David could have taken his wife Michal along with him and his loyal armies.
    Secondly, David should have easily calculated that Saul would never try to harm Michal his own daughter wherever she may go away with David.”

    You have no evidence for these assertions.

    “In the Christian standard, David demanded back a female fornicator, right?”

    Probably Michal didn’t even know that Saul had made the agreement.

  39. madmanna says:

    The other possibilities are that they were only betrothed. The marriage had not yet been consumated.

    Or that she acted out of fear for her life.

    I don’t believe that Saul would have given her to another man if the marriage had already been consumated, but he was acting irrationaly at the time.

  40. madmanna says:
    May 1, 2017 at 4:52 pm

    “What do you mean by OP Stardusty?
    Can you clarify please?”
    Original Post

    “…. Mohammed commands … Thus he commands women to break the law of Moses. Is it any wonder that Jews and Christians don’t believe that Mohammed is a prophet sent from God?”

    My point is that Jesus also changed the law of Moses. By your logic that means Jesus was not sent by god, or of god. As you know, I am sure, Muslims claim that the law was corrupted and Mohamed was sent to correct these corruptions. Certainly Mohamed was later than both Moses and Jesus.

    Although I am an atheist certain aspects of Christianity resonate and ring true with me, whereas Islam is altogether debauchery. I would prefer Muslims reject theism altogether, but that is likely a bridge too far for most, so I wish you all the best in converting Muslims to Christianity, alt least the world will be a safer place in that case.

    I just don’t think your argument in this post works. One alternative is to appeal to common decency while exposing the true debauchery of Muhammad, but that carries the risk of “radicalization” which is just another word for reading and believing and acting on what the Islamic texts actually say.,

  41. θ says:

    “madmanna says: Probably Michal didn’t even know that Saul had made the agreement.”

    That is getting better. Michal doesn’t have to know that.
    In the Bible, what sufficiently makes a woman someone’s wife is a decision of her father. A woman is her father’s property, thus she doesn’t necessarily know or get notice if her father has made her a wife of somebody at anytime.
    Hence, it is already quite awful that a man’s daughter doesn’t have any consent whatsoever to say anything concerning her marriage. Even it just gets even worse, that eventually in the Gospels Jesus labels a woman so easily as “fornicator” without considering a possibility that she may become a *wife* of other man because of her father’s decision. Consent and notice are trivial.
    Regardless whether she knows or not, in the Bible a woman becomes wife because of the choice made by her father.

    “The other possibilities are that they were only betrothed. The marriage had not yet been consumated. Or that she acted out of fear for her life. I don’t believe that Saul would have given her to another man if the marriage had already been consumated, but he was acting irrationaly at the time.”

    What makes a woman *wife* in the Bible is not a consummation, nor her consent, nor her acknowledgement, but just the arrangement between her father and a man.

  42. Anonymous says:

    “Stardusty Psyche says: but that carries the risk of “radicalization” which is just another word for reading and believing and acting on what the Islamic texts actually say.,”

    What if the Moslem radicalisation followed a pattern of Jewish terrorism? Bear in mind, only after Israel state exists in 1948 upon the Arab lands illegally then the Israelis outlaw their terrorist groups, and behave more civilised.

    Isn’t it pretty ironic that actually Christianity (Pro-Israel theology) is one of the driving forces behind Israel since 1948 that makes the Arabia turn to be a region of wars, conflicts, and terrors.

  43. Anonymous says:
    May 1, 2017 at 11:58 pm

    “Stardusty Psyche says: but that carries the risk of “radicalization” which is just another word for reading and believing and acting on what the Islamic texts actually say.,”

    “What if the Moslem radicalisation followed a pattern of Jewish terrorism? ”
    It doesn’t.

    “Isn’t it pretty ironic that actually Christianity (Pro-Israel theology) is one of the driving forces behind Israel since 1948 that makes the Arabia turn to be a region of wars, conflicts, and terrors.”
    Nonsense. Israel has displaced several million Palestinians and seized a very small fraction of land compared to the whole Middle East. Israel has not stopped Saudi Arabia from getting rich or taken any of their land, yet they spawned the majority of the 9/11 hijackers.

    In fact, Palestinian terrorism is virtually a non-issue outside of Israel. The IS rampaged through Iraq and Syria, but had the practical sense to not attack Israel and Israel was not driven out of Iraq or Syria because they were not in Syria or Iraq.

    Muslims are attacking all over the world and that has nothing to do with Israel.

  44. madmanna says:

    “What makes a woman *wife* in the Bible is not a consummation, nor her consent, nor her acknowledgement, but just the arrangement between her father and a man.”

    As long as the marriage was not consumated the father can change his mind and retract his permission as Saul probably did in this case.

    The point is that David had already paid the price agreed between him and Saul, namely the foreskins of the Philistines. Saul was bound but he tried to renege on the agreement and gave his daughter to someone else. Thus there was no fornication involved on the part of Michal.

  45. Anonymous says:

    “Stardusty Psyche says: Israel has displaced several million Palestinians and seized a very small fraction of land compared to the whole Middle East. ”

    Does size matter?
    Do you imply it is okay for the Arab terrorists to have attacked 1% fraction of New York in 9/11? You savagely imply it is okay for Israel to do a state terrorism, namely the bombing of King David hotel, but it’s not okay for several Arab losers to destroy 2 American towers?
    How do you count a comparison between several million innocent Palestinians and 3,000 innocent Americans?

    “Israel has not stopped Saudi Arabia from getting rich or taken any of their land, yet they spawned the majority of the 9/11 hijackers.”

    9/11 terrorists didn’t attack Las Vegas or Hollywood or Fort Knox either where the Americans preserved and produced much dollars. Why is it okay for you to have the Israelis do a state terrorism on the poor Arabs?

    “In fact, Palestinian terrorism is virtually a non-issue outside of Israel. ”

    The point is, is Israeli terrorism okay if the victims are the poor Arabs?

    “The IS rampaged through Iraq and Syria, but had the practical sense to not attack Israel and Israel was not driven out of Iraq or Syria because they were not in Syria or Iraq.”

    That’s a civil war. Most Modern states such as the US, Russia, France, UK, were built upon the bloods of brothers and sisters.

    “Muslims are attacking all over the world and that has nothing to do with Israel.”

    But, those Arab losers so far have not succeeded to invade even an inch of the West soil.
    Compare their failure with a successful terrorism and daily occupation of Israel whose one of driving forces is the pro-Israel Christians.
    The record of Israeli terrorism around Middle East showed that the Israeli squads periodically killed the Arabs in the Gulf, Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, Jordan, et cetera.

  46. Anonymous says:

    //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_conducted_by_the_Mossad
    The following is an incomplete list of recognized and non-recognized operations carried out by Israel’s intelligence agency, Mossad, sorted in chronological order.
    Nikita Khrushchev’s speech capture (1956) – Mossad capture of a copy of the Nikita Khrushchev’s speech denouncing Joseph Stalin. The Mossad passed it on to the United States, which published the speech, embarrassing the USSR.

    Operation Garibaldi (1960) – Mossad operation in Buenos Aires for the location, identification, kidnapping and later movement to Israel of senior Nazi fugitive Adolf Eichmann.

    Assassination of Herberts Cukurs (February 23, 1965) – Mossad operation in Montevideo in which the famous Latvian fugitive war criminal Herberts Cukurs was assassinated.

    Operation Diamond (1963–1966) – Covert operation which began in mid – 1963, and ended on August 16, 1966, when the most advanced Russian war plane at that time, the Mig-21, was stolen from Iraq and landed at an air base in Israel.

    Wrath of God (began in 1972) – covert operation directed by Israeli government and Mossad to assassinate individuals alleged to have been directly or indirectly involved in the 1972 Munich massacre. Their targets usually included members of Black September and PLO. Most of the assassinations were carried out by bombings.

    Lillehammer affair (July 21, 1973) – Mistaken killing of an Arab waiter in Lillehammer, Norway due to the Israeli agents mistaking their victim for Ali Hassan Salameh, the chief of operations for Black September. Most of the Mossad team was captured and tried for the murder, in a major blow to the intelligence agency’s reputation.

    Assassination of Zuheir Mohsen (1979) – Killing of as-Sa’iqa leader Zuheir Mohsen.

    Assassination of Yehia El-Mashad (June 13, 1980) – Mossad operation held in Paris, France, in which the Egyptian atomic scientist Yehia El-Mashad, who was involved in the development of the Iraqi nuclear reactor, was assassinated.

    Abduction of Mordechai Vanunu (1986) – Mossad operation to abduct and bring back to Israel Mordechai Vanunu, an Israeli nuclear technician who had fled Israel for the United Kingdom and revealed nuclear secrets. A female operative lured Vanunu to Rome, where Mossad agents drugged him and smuggled him to Israel, where he was tried and imprisoned for treason.

    Assassination of Gerald Bull (March 22, 1990) – Shooting dead of Canadian scientist Gerald Bull while he was working on the Project Babylon Supergun for Saddam Hussein.

    Assassination of Atef Bseiso (June 8, 1992) – Assassination of PLO head of intelligence Atef Bseiso.

    Assassination of Fathi Shaqaqi (October 26, 1995) – Mossad operation held in Sliema, Malta, in which Fathi Shaqaqi, the founder of the Islamic Jihad organization and the initiator of suicide bombings against Israel, was assassinated.

    Assassination attempt of Khaled Mashal (September 25, 1997) – a failed Mossad operation in which the institution attempted to assassinate the head of the Political Bureau of Hamas in Amman.

    Assassination of Izz El-Deen Sheikh Khalil (September 26, 2004) – the killing of Hamas leader Izz El-Deen Sheikh Khalil in Damascus.

    Assassination of Imad Mughniyah (February 12, 2008) – the killing of Hezbollah leader Imad Mughniyah in Damascus.

    Assassination of Muhammad Suleiman (August 1, 2008) – Allegedly killing of Muhammad Suleiman, head of Syria’s nuclear program, in Tartus.

    Assassination of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh (January 19, 2010) – the alleged killing of Hamas operative Mahmoud al-Mabhouh in Dubai.

    Assassination of Muhammad Al-Zuari (December 15, 2016)- Allegedly killing of Hamas operative Muhmmad Al-Zuari in Tunis.

    //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targeted_killings_by_Israel_Defense_Forces
    While the term “targeted killing” usually describes airborne attacks, Israeli security forces have killed top Palestinian militants in the past by other means, although this has never been confirmed officially.
    Some of the known operations include:[8]
    Operation Wrath of God against Black September and Palestinian Liberation Organisation personnel alleged to have been directly or indirectly involved in the 1972 Munich massacre, led to the Lillehammer affair.
    Operation Spring of Youth against top Palestine Liberation Organisation leaders in Beirut, 1973: Muhammad Najjar, Kamal Adwan, and Kamal Nasser.[9]
    Khalil al-Wazir known by his nom de guerre Abu Jihad. One of the founders and Military Head of Fatah, killed in Tunis, 1988[10]
    Abbas al-Musawi, Secretary General of Hezbollah, killed when Israeli Apache helicopters fired missiles at his motorcade in southern Lebanon on 16 February 1992. His wife, his five-year-old son, and four others were also killed.[11]
    Yahya Ayyash (Hamas bombmaker, “the Engineer”) in Beit Lahya, Gaza, 1996. Ayyash was killed by a cell phone allegedly containing “50 grams of high-grade explosives.”[12]
    Khaled Mashal (Hamas) in Jordan, 1997 (failed)
    Salah Mustafa Muhammad Shehade killed by a one-ton bomb during July 2002 in Gaza. Also killed were 11 civilians, including Shehadeh’s wife and three sons, and four other children.[13][14]
    Ahmed Ismail Yassin killed along with 7 other bystanders on Friday morning, 22 March 2004, when an AH-64 Apache helicopter fired Hellfire missiles as he exited a mosque in the al-Sabra neighborhood of Gaza.[15][16]
    Jamal Abu Samhadana killed with three other militants on 8 June 2006, when an Israeli Apache helicopter fired four missiles at a PRC camp in Rafah.[17]
    Possible targeted killing: Imad Mugniyah, a senior Hezbollah commander, was killed in February 2008 in a car bomb. The Israeli Mossad is alleged to have been behind the killing.[18]
    Nizar Rayan killed by an Israeli airstrike on 1 January 2009 with 15 relatives when a 2,000-pound bomb was dropped on his house.[19]
    Possible targeted killing: Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, a senior Hamas commander and one of the founders of the al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in January 2010 by being electrocuted and/or drugged with succinylcholine, a quick-acting paralytic, and then suffocated in his room in a five-star Dubai hotel; the Dubai police said that the Israeli Mossad was behind the killing.[20][21][22][23]
    Ahmed Jabari killed by an Israeli drone strike on 14 November 2012 while he was traveling with his bodyguard along Omar Mukhtar Street in Gaza City.[24]
    Raed al Atar killed with two other top Hamas commanders by an Israeli airstrike in Rafah on 21 August 2014.[25]
    Jihad Mughniyah killed on 18 January 2015 by an Israeli airstrike in the Syrian-controlled Golan Heights along with five other prominent members of Hezbollah and six IRGC commanders, including a General.[26][27]
    Samir Kuntar killed with other seven Syrian nationals on 20 December 2015 by an Israeli airstrike in Jaramana, Syria.[28]

  47. θ says:

    “madmanna says: As long as the marriage was not consumated the father can change his mind and retract his permission as Saul probably did in this case.”

    What makes Muchal a *wife* of Phalti is not a consummation but simply an agreement between Saul and Phalti. In the Christian judgment, Michal is made a fornicator by her father Saul. Hence, according to Christian perspectives, David’s remarriage of Michal is a fornication.

  48. madmanna says:

    It might be a fornication of some kind but not an abomination in the sense of deut 24 v 4 because David never gave her a bill of divorcement. He never sent her away.

    Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

  49. Anonymous says:
    May 2, 2017 at 5:46 am

    “Stardusty Psyche says: Israel has displaced several million Palestinians and seized a very small fraction of land compared to the whole Middle East. ”

    “Does size matter?”
    Yes

    “Do you imply it is okay for the Arab terrorists to have attacked 1% fraction of New York in 9/11? ”
    New York had crime before 9/11 and after 9/11. If you wish to blame crime in New York on 9/11 you are wrong because it is only a tiny part in one small place at one limited time by comparison.

    “You savagely imply it is okay for Israel to do a state terrorism,”
    You really don’t get this do you? Muslims are killing each other and others globally. Shiites are blowing up Sunnis, and Sunnis are blowing up Shiites thousands of miles away from Israel.

    Muslims are killings each other and others because of Islamic doctrine, not Israel.

    ” Why is it okay for you to have the Israelis do a state terrorism on the poor Arabs?”
    “the poor Arabs” are not victims of Israel. A relatively small number of Arabs in Palestine are the victims of Israel, the rest have their problems because of themselves.

  50. Anonymous says:

    “Stardusty Psyche says: Muslims are killing each other and others globally. ”

    The civil war happens usually and inevitably in the earlier phase of nationhood that still seeks a solid shape. It happened in earlier time of the USA as well. Mostly the Middle East’s states were created less than 50-100 years ago. It is a norms of live that certain people don’t like to learn from the mistakes of the others, but tend to repeat it.

    “Shiites are blowing up Sunnis, and Sunnis are blowing up Shiites thousands of miles away from Israel.”

    Where exactly? Are you living in 2017 or what? Do you not know there are a lot of Sunnis in Iran, and a lot of Shi’ites in Saudi Arabia? the killing is personal vendetta, it is not official position of Moslem states as far as I know.
    Iran is surrounded by four major powerful Sunni states: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey, and Afghanistan. So, had there been an anti-Shi’ite doctrine in the Sunni world, it appears that the alleged doctrine is not important.

    “Muslims are killings each other and others because of Islamic doctrine, not Israel.”

    If so, tell me, where’s that “doctrine” happening in Saudi Arabia and Iran? Are they both not conservatively Islamic enough?
    There are certain silly people who think they can be “more Sunni” than Saudis and “more Shi’ite” than Iranians.

    ““the poor Arabs” are not victims of Israel.”

    It is Israel that invaded Palestine, whereas both the Sunnis and the Shiites are unified on the case of Palestine’s liberation from Israel.

    ” A relatively small number of Arabs in Palestine are the victims of Israel, the rest have their problems because of themselves.”

    Israeli State Terrorism isn’t a solution for the Arab internal problems.

  51. SP “Shiites are blowing up Sunnis, and Sunnis are blowing up Shiites thousands of miles away from Israel.”

    “Where exactly?”
    Here in just the last 30 days. Muslims killing each other mostly, also people of other religions. The list goes on and on and on.
    https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30

    “The civil war happens usually and inevitably in the earlier phase of nationhood that still seeks a solid shape. It happened in earlier time of the USA as well. Mostly the Middle East’s states were created less than 50-100 years ago. It is a norms of live that certain people don’t like to learn from the mistakes of the others, but tend to repeat it.”
    Right, that’s what I said, they are killing each other because of themselves, not because of Israel.

  52. Anonymous says:

    “Stardusty Psyche says: Here in just the last 30 days. Muslims killing each other mostly, also people of other religions. The list goes on and on and on.”

    Statistics say differently.
    Based on the number of casualties, 5 highest killings according to state:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
    Brazil, 24.6 –> 50,674
    India, 3.2 –> 41,623
    Mexico, 15.7 –> 19,669
    Venezuela, 62.0 –> 19,030
    South Africa, 33.0 –> 17,805

    Thus, based on the number of casualties, 5 highest killings according to the faith of populace: Christianity, Hinduism, Christianity, Christianity, Christianity.

    Based on the rate of killings, Saudi Arabia appears just at the bottom in the rank 194 with the rate 0.8 (234 killed). Iran is at 108 with the rate 3.9 (3,126 killed) along with the US is at 107 (12,253 killed). Israel is at 160 with the rate 1.7 (134 killed).

  53. Anonymous says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade
    Country-2010-2011-2012-2013-2014-2015-Count
    Brazil — 57,045
    India — 33,351
    Venezuela — 24,763
    Mexico — 18,650
    South Africa — 17,068
    United States — 15,696
    Russia — 13,912
    Colombia — 12,193
    Honduras — 6,757
    Guatemala — 5,681

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s