The Angels, the Holy Spirit, the Samaritans and John the Baptist proclaim a Saviour who will save the world, and not just warn the Jews, as Islamists claim

Luke 2 v

4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)

5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.

9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

John 1 v 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.

31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

John 3 v

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The Jesus goes to the Samaritans, who have been rejected by the Jews because of their impure lineage, to prove that he is the Saviour of the world:

John 4 v

40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.

41 And many more believed because of his own word;

42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

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12 Responses to The Angels, the Holy Spirit, the Samaritans and John the Baptist proclaim a Saviour who will save the world, and not just warn the Jews, as Islamists claim

  1. θ says:

    None of the angels, the Holy Spirit, the Samaritans and John the Baptist proclaims that Jesus will bear the sins of the world. Taking away the sins (just as the darkness of Passover takes away the firstborn sons of Egypt) means destroying the sin with the external forces, it is totally different than the act of bearing the sin internally within himself.

  2. Anonymous says:

    The word Savior in the Tanach means the liberator or conqueror.
    Since the Father is the Savior, is the Father also an offering of sin?

    A distortion of the meaning of “Savior” is a proof how the Christians tampered a lot with the Tanach of the Jews.
    Nowhere does the Tanach promise the Messiah to be a “sin offering” of which that the Christians have misinterpreted in their NT as “Savior” in relation to sin. Rather, the word Savior in the Tanach is synonymous to a war hero, liberator or conqueror.

    In Jewish literature, two Moshiachs shall be two warriors of the battles in which Moshiach ben Joseph gets killed and another one Moshiach ben David is victorious, hence fulfilling a role of Savior.
    Also, nowhere does the Jews interpret a controversial “Suffering Servant” of Isaiah 53 as a Jewish Moshiach, not even a slain Moshiach ben Joseph.

    At most, what the Tanach teaches is that the Messiah will come as both a Priest (of the Temple) and a Savior (of the battle fields), but he is not to be an offering of sin itself.
    A Priest just acts as facilitator or administrator of the Temple. A Savior acts as a warrior in the battle fields.

    Previously God had intended to make each firstborn son of Israelites a group of Priests for God’s sacred places. Due to the fall of idolatry, the first option was overturned, so then the role of ministering the sanctuaries is given to the Levites.
    Therefore, one of the most weakest arguments of Christianity on the status of Messiah of Jesus is their wrong meaning of “Savior” that they misinterpret as the offering (in relation to sin), even being as incorrect as a Priest.
    In fact, according to Tanach, a Priest works in the Temple, whereas a Savior works with swords and troops to fight the enemies.

    Even, both God and Jewish warriors are praised equally as “Saviors” who lead the battles. Nowhere does the word “Savior” get related to the Priesthood. Nowhere is God the Savior called a “Priest” either.

    In a nutshell, the entire tactics of the Christians in distorting a simple meaning of “Savior” of the Tanach (which just means a war hero) can be explained as this way:
    (i) Firstly, they accept that the status of Messiah is related to a Priesthood, that is he acts as a Priest for Jews.
    (ii) They accept that the work of Messiah in the Tanach is related to a Savior (liberator, conqueror) of the battles.
    (iii) They accept that a Jewish Priest ministers the offerings and atonement in the Temple.
    (iv) Now, here is a trick: there’s the absence of the Temple and absence of war hero throughout the core teachings of Jesus.
    (v) Hence, they add another trick: making a shortcut between (i) and (iii): a Savior “is” an offering of sin itself.

    Therefore, it is obvious how far worse and so misleading the Christians have changed, twisted, distorted and tampered with a crucial word “Savior” of the Tanach.

    Therefore, actually the Jews can so easily reverse back a theological distortion of the word “Savior” by Christians by just asking them: Since the Father is the Savior, is the Father also a Priest of Jews?
    Since the Father is the Savior, is the Father also an offering of sin itself?

  3. Anonymous says:

    It is unavoidable in the Bible that there are two strata of divinity. God of the elects and God of the Gentiles. Abraham in the context of History is a Gentile, that’s why the angels of the Lord can be loosely called Jehovah, the I am, and whom God addresses with “us”. The altar on the mount Moriah is called Jehovah as well. Even Moses is a god for Pharaoh.

    As Jesus attests, the Gentiles such as Samaritans do not know what and who exactly they worship.

    The Post-Torah marks a new definition of God of the elects. The angels remain to be called “gods”, “Jehovah”, “I am” by the Gentiles. The Gentiles aren’t bound by the Torah, especially the 1st and 2nd commandments.
    Even the kings of Israel are called “Son of God” because they happen to rule upon the Gentiles amongst the Jews as well. The Judges are called “Jehovah” as well because they judge the Gentiles in Israel.
    Ps 82
    1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.2 How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah.3 Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.4 Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

    Nevertheless, for the elects, there is only one true God, because they are bound by the Torah. The elects set a new strict rule for themselves that attributing any mortal with title of “god”, “son of god”, “I am” is a blasphemy of the holy Name.
    Exo 20:7
    Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

    The elects further develop a theological reason why they no longer attribute the title “gods” to angels and themselves. The reason is the idea of preexistence of the elects. They believe that actually the elects (either kings, prophets, judges, Messiah, or lay righteous peasants) have preexisted alongside the heavenly angels before the world began. They were once the “sons of God” and “morning stars”.

    John and Paul of Tarsus talk in the context of “Gentilehood”. For the Gentile, the mortal nature (death, ignorance, errors, biological defects, hunger, thirst, et cetera) is not so important if compared to the given title. Now, in the context of Gentilehood, Jesus is attributed with the titles of the Word, “I am”, “My Lord and my God”, Form of God, Fullness of Godhead, whom all knees shall bend to, et cetera, but the Gentiles remain to not know what and who exactly they worship.

  4. Anonymous says:

    The different level between the elects and the Gentile worlds may explain why the Reformed can’t accept the idea of preexistence of the elect’s soul. The Reformed consist mainly of the Gentiles who read the NT Bible from the Gentile’s point of view. They can’t afford to have the preexistent saints alongside Jesus.

    On other hands, the Catholics read the Bible from the Rabbinical points of view to the level of Gentilehood, hence not only accepting the preexistence of souls and the salvation by works, they further also venerate Mary, angels, saints as well.

  5. Anonymous says:

    As typical Gentiles prior to the Torah, the Reformed can accept the divinity of “angel of the Lord”, but they can’t accept more divinities of saints whom Jesus called “gods” and the NT termed as “partaker of divine nature”.

  6. θ says:

    The Pauline Philippians’ poem does not a bit confer upon Jesus a worship supposed for Jehovah alone according to Isaiah 45:22-23, because actually the king of Israel also happens to be a “Joint-recipient” of the worship after he alone personally demonstrated to fall down worshiping Jehovah in front all people.
    Isaiah 45:22-23 can’t undo the king’s Joint-recipient of worship in 1Chr 29:20.
    1Chr 29:20
    And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.

    1Chr 29:10
    Wherefore David blessed the LORD before all the congregation: and David said, Blessed be thou, LORD God of Israel our father, for ever and ever.

  7. θ says:

    Every Jewish knees shall bow to the saints:
    Rev 3:9
    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

    The Pauline Philippians’ poem (Phil 2:5-11) does not a bit confer upon Jesus a worship supposed for Jehovah alone according to Isaiah 45:22-23, because actually the saints shall be “Joint-recipients” of the worship.
    It is remodeled after the Tanachic custom of having the king of Israel a “Joint-recipient” of the worship of people.

  8. madmanna says:

    “1Chr 29:20
    And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king.”

    That is just saying that the king is also worshipping God. Not just the congregation.

    “Rev 3:9
    Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

    That is just saying that the fake Jews will worship God next to the saints.

  9. θ says:

    “madmanna says: That is just saying that the king is also worshipping God. Not just the congregation.
    That is just saying that the fake Jews will worship God next to the saints.”

    Well, but how about other gestures of worship by the people to the creations and objects?

    • Warden to two Christians.
    Acts 16:29
    Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas.

    • Christians to two angels.
    Lk 24:5
    And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them,

    • Angels to mother and her conceived son.
    Heb 1:6
    And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the Angels of God worship him.

    • Debtor to creditor.
    Mt 18:29
    And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.

    • Prophet to his grand children.
    Heb 11:21
    By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.

    • Prophet to an ark.
    Josh 7:6
    And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel.

    • Prophet to a city.
    Dan 6:10
    And his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

    • Prophet to angel.
    Dan 8:17
    I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man:

    • Father’s blessing of his son: nations and mother bowing to son.
    Gen 27:29
    Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother’s sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

    • Brethren to younger brother.
    Gen 44:14
    And Judah and his brethren came to Joseph’s house; for he was yet there: and they fell before him on the ground.

    • King to a Prophet.
    Dan 2:46
    Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer an oblation and sweet odours unto him.

    • King to a resuscitated Prophet.
    1Sam 28:14
    And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

    • King to his mother.
    1Ki 2:19
    Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right hand.

    • Prophet to king.
    1Ki 1:23
    And they told the king, saying, Behold Nathan the prophet. And when he was come in before the king, he bowed himself before the king with his face to the ground.

    • Apprentices to Prophet.
    1Ki 18:7
    And as Obadiah was in the way, behold, Elijah met him: and he knew him, and fell on his face, and said, Art thou that my lord Elijah?
    2Ki 2:15
    And when the sons of the prophets which were to view at Jericho saw him, they said, The spirit of Elijah doth rest on Elisha. And they came to meet him, and bowed themselves to the ground before him.

  10. Anonymous says:

    In terms of Faith no man can surpass that of angels. What makes the humans higher than angels is not our Faith but the works, namely our repentance, the obedience in suffering, the “world-related righteousness” humans can achieve but no angel could perform.
    Ps 90:1
    A Prayer of Moses the man of God. Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Both the Synoptic Gospels and John’s agree that the good work is what actually differentiates the followers of Jesus from the others. Human’s good work is a privilege that angels couldn’t match with. In Synoptic, the followers are encouraged to love their enemies – Golden Rule as good works – above a usual love toward friends, while in John’s the followers are encouraged to show a more greater love by laying down – akin to Moses’ sacrificial good work – own life for friends.

  12. Anonymous says:

    Is Paul teaching forgery to corrupt the Tanach?
    The Pauline Philippians’ poem (Carmen Christi) is a subtle try of forgery to delicately corrupt the original Isaiah 45:23, because actually the Tanachic passage doesn’t contain any name of Jesus or Christ at all.
    Isa 45:23
    I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
    versus.
    Phil 2
    10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

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