Erasmus replies to Mozer’s claim that Jesus did not qualify to be the Messiah

Jesus. Christos? Pt. 1

Shalom, SalamThis post is a continuation of my previous post where I said I was going to explain why according to the Jewish scriptures, Jesus does not meet the qualifications for being the long promised Messiah. I would like to thanks our dear friend Eric for enlightened us on the Quran’s position on this important subject. God/Allah bless all those who seek Him.

Unlike the Christian bible, the Hebrew bible does not focus that much on the personality of the Messiah, it’s main focus is on the Messianic Age, on what the world will be like, and how it will be transformed by the coming of the Messiah. There is, however, a prerequisite for being the Messiah.

What does Messiah mean?

The literal translation of the word משיח (messiah) is, “the anointed.” In the Scriptures we find two types of people who were anointed, and therefore called “messiah”;

  1. Aaron the Priest, and all his male descendants (Exodus 30:30; see Leviticus 4:3)
  2. Kings (1 Samuel 10:1, 16:13; see 2 Samuel 1:16).

King David refers to himself as “The Messiah” more times than any other biblical figure:

“Great salvation he brings to his king, and shows steadfast love to his anointed- to David and his offspring forever.” 2 Samuel 22:51

“The Lord is the strength of his people; he is the saving refuge of his anointed.” Psalms 28:8

“Now I know that the Lord saves his anointed; he will answer him from his holy heaven with the saving might of his right hand.” ibid 20:7

“For the sake of your servant David- do not turn away the face of your anointed one.” ibid 132:10

“There I will make a horn to sprout for David- I have prepared a lamp for my anointed.” ibid :17

What was so unique about David’s anointment that made him obsess over it? Wasn’t Saul anointed, too? Weren’t the priests anointed?

David’s Kingdom

We all know the story of David. God was unhappy with Saul, so he sent Samuel to anoint the next king of Israel. Samuel anointed the shepherd-boy David. But David’s kingship was very different in nature than Saul’s kingship. In the word of God to the prophet Nathan:

“Now, therefore, thus you shall say to my servant David, ‘Thus says the Lord of hosts, I took you from the pasture, from following the sheep, that you should be prince over my people Israel… I will make for you a great name, like the name of the great ones of the earth… Moreover, the Lord declares to you that the Lord will make you a house. When your days are fulfilled and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, who shall come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son. When he commits iniquity, I will discipline him with the rod of men, with the stripes of the sons of men, but my steadfast love will not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away from before you.  And your house and your kingdom shall be made sure forever before me.” 2 Samuel 7:8-16 

From this prophecy we can learn many things:

  1. God chose David to be a king
  2. King David will have a son, who will build a House for God
  3. God will never replace that son’s kingship, like He had done to Saul. The son’s kingship will be established forever.

The “son” in discussion is Solomon, who indeed built the First Temple in Jerusalem, as the bible relates in great detail in 1 Kings chapters 5-10. We can therefore establish that anyone who will claim kingship on Israel must be a direct descendant father-to-son, of Solomon and (obviously, and more importantly), David. I say father-to-son, for that is the way tribal and all lineage works in the bible; the son of a Levite is a Levite, the son of a priest is a priest, the son of a Judean is a Judean. There is never an exception to this rule. In fact, all nineteen kings who sat on David’s throne, were direct father-to-son descendants to David. For good reason, it is the way God taught Moses to register the Jews:

“Take a census of all the congregation of the people of Israel, by clans, by fathers’ houses, according to the number of names, every male, head by head.” Numbers 1:2

When Samuel anointed David, he thereby also anointed the future kings of Israel who will claim their right for the monarchy by being direct descendants of David. The Messiah is not just a king who will fight and judge  (Isaiah 11:3-4), he is the one who will rebuild the Davidic kingdom, he “The Anointed One” who finally restore David’s kingdom. He is therefore called by the name of his grandfather…

My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes… and David my servant shall be their prince forever.” Ezekiel 37:24-25

Jesus the son of…

If you open the book of Matthew and just read chapter 1, than Jesus lineage is very fitting for a future king of the Jews:

“The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham… and Jesse the father of David the king. And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah… and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.” Matthew 1:1-16

Had Matthew left the story as it appears here, than Jesus would be a direct descendant of Solomon and David through his father Joseph. Instead, three verses later, Matthew reveals that Joseph wasn’t Jesus’ father at all. Jesus is not a descendant of David. Jesus belongs to no tribe, and has no lineage that is relevant to us. Jesus is a king like he is a priest. He is none.

 

Luke gives us another genealogy of Joseph:

“Jesus…  being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli… the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David” Luke 3:24-31

The question of how Joseph can have two fathers is irrelevant, for I don’t believe in the Divinity of this book. But however you’ll twist this you will come out with a major problem.

  1. Joseph is a descendant of Solomon. Still doesn’t help Jesus (imagine Joseph headed a foster care would than all 500 homeless children be qualified?)
  2. Joseph is a descendant of Nathan. Disqualified.
  3. Mary is a descendant of Solomon or Nathan. Her lineage is irrelevant.
  4. Jesus wan’t born of a virgin. Then, who is his father??? Joseph apparently admitted it wasn’t him.

 

This is part one. There is more to discuss on this subject, I just wanted to put this out before the week begins. I hope this finds you well. There will be follow ups God Willing. HaShem/Allah Bless you all.

Erasmus replies:

  1. “In other words, the Jews are waiting for a king. Jesus can be many things, a Davidic king is not one of them. Regarding the first question I think it’s clear from Nathan’s prophecy that it is an unconditional Vow.”
  2. Why are they waiting if the promise is unconditional? Beginning with Solomon the throne and kingdom should have been perpetual in that case and Solomon’s descendants should be reigning perpetually over the same kingdom up to the present day. Or does God not keep his promises?
  3. “Joseph is a descendant of Nathan. Disqualified.”
  4. I don’t agree.
  5. “I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.”
  6. Solomon was the immediate fulfilment but he wasn’t the ultimate fulfilment. Otherwise he would have to live forever.
  7. “6 And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father. 7 Moreover I will establish his kingdom for ever, if he be constant to do my commandments and my judgments, as at this day.
  8. Solomon wasn’t constant to keep God’s commandments. Doesn’t this mean that his line was rejected from being the basis of an everlasting kingdom? This speaks in favour of Joseph’s lineage being the one through which the Messiah, Jesus, would come.
  9. “God will never replace that son’s kingship, like He had done to Saul. The son’s kingship will be established forever”
  10. So why did it vanish when the Greeks and Romans came?
  11. Was Jesus the biological son of Joseph. Genetically, I believe yes. Why is this not possible for God to create a son of Joseph according to the human nature of Jesus?
  12. “We can therefore establish that anyone who will claim kingship on Israel must be a direct descendant father-to-son, of Solomon and (obviously, and more importantly), David.”
  13. I don’t see any evidence for the Solomon part of the conditions for being the Messiah.
  14. Thanks for the interesting discussion.
  15. Like
    • the prophecy ends by god telling david that his own kingdom will be established forever. does that mean that david will never die? of course not. there were many davidic kings who didn’t go in Gods ways but their children did. and so the kingdom continued. David himself is recorded that he did things God was very unhappy with, but nonetheless his kingdom was retained.
      so according to you, Gods promise to david expired after solomon and reborn by jesus, that’s wierd because you still don’t have a ‘forever’ moreover even if you say that davids kingdom went altheway to the destruction of the temple, where was the kingdom in the 400 years in between the last davidic king and Jesus. in your terminology, so why did it vanish when the Babylonians came?
      I think it is certain that no matter how you twist it there was a period after david where there wan’t a king. you will have to say that forever means that it might take a break but be revived and never substituted or replaced.
      i think the evidence is clear. i don’t see the slightest hint that the covenant to solomon is any different than the covenant to david, the terminology is identical.
      regarding Jesus biology i have no opinion for i don’t see him as divine at all.
      thanks for your contribution to the subject…

      Like

  1. “the prophecy ends by god telling david that his own kingdom will be established forever.”

    Please can you give chapter and verse for this claim.

    The covenant is with the one who builds God a house. His throne and kingdom will be established for ever. Where is succession here? This is the opposite to succession.

    “But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore”.

    If he is succeeded by his son then the covenant is broken.

    Solomon had his chance but blew it:

    God’s Anger against Solomon

    1 Kings 11 v 9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, 10 And had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods: but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. 11 Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant. 12 Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father’s sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. 13 Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant’s sake, and for Jerusalem’s sake which I have chosen.

    Judah by itself is not the kingdom which God would have been preserved if Solomon had been obedient. The fact that Judah is preserved through Solomon’s sons is irrelevant to the covenant which God makes with the Messiah, if we call him that for argument’s sake, who builds the house for him.

    I am still waiting for some evidence that Jesus is excluded by his lineage from being the Messiah.

    As a Christian I would see this house as a spiritual house and kingdom not made with hands.

    Hebrews 3 v Jesus Our Apostle and High Priest

    1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus; 2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house. 3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house. 4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God. 5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

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7 Responses to Erasmus replies to Mozer’s claim that Jesus did not qualify to be the Messiah

  1. θ says:

    Jesus is the Messiah because he is one of the anointed Prophets, but not yet one of the anointed kings.
    1Ki 19:16
    And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Moreover, it is the Jews who expected the king by wrongly twisting the meaning of Hebrew word “Messiah”, but Jehovah just makes definition “messiah” as the anointed. Originally, Jehovah doesn’t expect any king over the Jews and opposed the idea of the kingship. His typical chosen person is Moses who is not a king, but rather a high priest and prophet.

  3. madmanna says:

    God doesn’t have expectations. They are human things.

    The one who builds the house for God must be a king because God says so:

    “But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore”.

    A throne and a kingdom but not a king? How does that work?

  4. madmanna says:

    I think the baptism of Jesus was his anointing. The oil of anointing is a type of the Holy Spirit.

  5. θ says:

    John the Baptist doesn’t anoint Jesus. Baptism is not anointment. Baptism is for all, as a way of repentance. Anointing is for the special sanctification. Such a wrong anointing can cost the life the person who anoints himself, such as anointment of a zar or non-priest (Ex. 30:33). Only a Prophet and priest can anoint the prophets and kings.

    It is a woman Mary who anoints Jesus. Since strangely she brings the ointment, actually she is a Prophetess chosen by God with one duty of anointing Jesus, but nobody realises it. Some Jewish Prophets and Prophetess have a bad reputation in the sight of Jews, but nevertheless they are chosen ones, such as Miriam, Hosea and Obadiah.
    In the Tanach there are at least 5 Prophetesses: Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Noadiah and the wife of Isaiah. In the NT Anna is one of Prophetess. Hence, Mary who anoints Jesus is a Prophetess.

    The point is, Baptism is not anointment. Baptism is for all, as a way of the repentance for all, but anointment is for a special sanctification thru special oil, upon special person, even special things.

  6. Anonymous says:

    “madmanna says: A throne and a kingdom but not a king? How does that work?”

    The throne of God is not literal throne of king, but a city, that is Jerusalem. The city had been “kingless throne” in the beginning, and that is acceptable. Jerusalem has been named always as the throne of God since the beginning, even at time when none of the Jews emerged to be a king yet.
    Jer 3:17
    At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    Jer 17:12
    A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Originally, Jehovah doesn’t like to have any king over the Jews and opposed the idea of the kingship. His typical chosen person is Moses who is not a king, but rather a high priest and prophet.

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