Canada: Imam says 50-year-old man marrying 9-year-old girl is “legitimate” in Islam, a disturbing post from Jihad Watch.org complete with comments

Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, a Canadian Muslim scholar and Imam and the Chancellor of the Islamic Online University , sees no wrong in the marriage between Mohammad and Aisha. In a lecture few years ago, Bilal Philips explained that Islam defines puberty, meaning menstruation and capability of bearing a child, as the dividing line between childhood and maturity.

According to two hadiths in Bukhari about 54-year-old Muhammad and 9-year-old Aisha:

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.”

Debates and heated arguments are ongoing about what age Aisha was when Muhammad actually consummated his marriage with her, but it is plain from these hadith, the earliest and most reliable available sources, that it is mainstream belief in Islam to hold that Muhammad did marry Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine. Many Muslims invoke Muhammad’s example to justify raping children as a religious right, but Westerners are terrified to discuss these facts and their implications. To try to justify this or explain it away does no good to the female victims of incalculable human rights abuses that are justified under an Islamic banner.

The likes of Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips are given open forums with reprieves from feminists and so-called human rights advocates in the West. The fear of confronting this openly is revolting, and all the while those who do point out the truth are branded “Islamophobes.” Even worse, leaders who have the responsibility to protect innocents are aiding the perpetrators in the name of political correctness:

Police investigate alleged hate crime after flyers depicting Mohammad deflowering 9-year-old Aisha were sent in October 2016 to mailboxes in Edmonton, Alberta.

young-muslim-girl-2-photo-cijnews

“Canadian Imam: 50 year old man marrying 9 year old girl is “legitimate” in Islam”, by Jonathan Halevi, CiJ News, October 30, 2016:

Police investigate alleged hate crime after flyers depicting Mohammad deflowering 9-year-old Aisha were sent in October 2016 to mailboxes in Edmonton, Alberta.

CIJnews was told that the Crown Prosecutor believes that the this flyer meets the criteria of a hate crime, among other things because of its pornographic content.

Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips, a Canadian Muslim scholar and Imam and the Chancellor of the Islamic Online University , sees no wrong in the marriage between Mohammad and Aisha. In a lecture few years ago, Bilal Philips explained that Islam defines puberty, meaning menstruation and capability of bearing a child, as the dividing line between childhood and maturity. He claimed that 1400 years ago 9-year-old girls were more mature than children today and life was much shorter. However, he maintained that marrying a matured 9-year-old girl remains legitimate. “If a Muslim man in his 50s, even today, wanted to marry a young woman who was 9 or 10, she reached puberty, it is legitimate,” he said.

The following is a transcript of Bilal Philip’s lecture:

“So what is the way in which we should understand this? First and foremost, it is important for us to understand it within, you know, the context of the time, that in these times people have set laws in terms of what ages people can marry at, and what ages they can’t.

“They have set a certain set of laws where if one has relations with a woman who is, or a young lady, who is below a certain age then they will consider that to be paedophilia, and if she is a above that age that is considered to be, and it is consensual, consensual sex, was OK.

“The point is that when you go and look at the numbers across Europe, you’ll find that it varies from country to country, varying all the way from 12 to 18 to just depends on which country you go to, from France to Germany to Netherlands to Italy to Spain. You know you’re going around those different countries you’ll find the numbers varying from 12 to 18. So what may be considered acceptable relations in one country is considered to be paedophilia in another country. So they have numbers and they have set to define where consensual sex is acceptable or not.

“For us and Islam we have a natural principle, a natural dividing line, which is for a woman to be considered an adult or that she may be married and have sexual relations etc. that dividing line is puberty. That is a natural dividing line. Puberty is the body saying that that young lady is now capable of bearing a child. That’s what puberty is about for females, menstruation.

“So whether one, in this society, considers that person still to be a child or not, that’s not the issue. The issue is that biologically, she is now an adult capable of bearing a child.

“That is the bottom line and it’s a natural division, and that will take into account variations which exist amongst people, amongst tribes, areas of the world etc., because you’ll find that number varied.

“In Arabia, 9 was a common age for puberty, other countries it varied. So that was the point. This was the dividing line.

“When we’re talking about paedophilia, what is paedophilia anyway? Is paedophilia really adults going and marrying children? No.

“The paedophiles who are coming out of Britain and Germany, this is the most largest body of paedophiles, and the US, you know, going into Southeast Asia, to Thailand, to Sri Lanka, the Philippines, these countries where people are in poverty, right? and where you know young children have sold themselves, so sell their bodies to earn money, and where parents will be willing to sell their children for money.

“These people who go there, they’re going to marry these kids? No, They’re going there to abuse them, just to take pleasures and then leave. So it’s not about marriage at all.

“So when we look in terms of the Prophet’s [Mohammad], peace be upon him [PBUH], situation, this was marriage.

“So one, we have a natural dividing line – puberty. Two – we have the issue of whether it was marriage or whether it was sexual abuse.

“And when we consider really 1400 years ago what were the ages in which people are considered to be marriageable or not, I’m sure, I’m not, I haven’t studied British history or not, but I’m sure if you go back in British history 1400 years ago, and look at that marriage customs of that time, it’s not going to be any different. So he would end up having to go back and label the British kings as paedophiles and all other kind of things too.

“The point is that in the world at that time, they didn’t have, they had not set these old ages that we now find 18 and 16 and 18, this type of thing, as they have here today. People matured faster and life was shorter. You know if you made it to 50 you know you’re an old, really an old person, you know, this you’ve lived your life out.

“People died 35 as an old person, 35, 40, you died then you died ad an old person. So life was, people developed much faster. As soon as the child reached a certain age they were taught the basic things that a person should know how to run a family, take care of a home, cook and all the different things that were needed, children learned that. What we call children today learned that.

“So where today you can find a woman in her 20s studying in University, she still does not how to cook, she can’t iron, you know, she’s basically a baby, so going to university, I mean, there is something in those days that is inconceivable.

“So the attitude of society towards responsibility and all this kind of thing have changed. Consider Usama ibn Zayd, whom the Prophet PBUH made the head, military commander for the Muslim armies, 17 years old. Imagine putting you know 17 year old the head of the Pentagon, you know, he’s got his finger, he can press any button and send missiles all over the world. Hey, we would be in World War 3 in a minute, right?

“So we know that, there was a whole different level of maturity, people matured at a whole different pace. So we always have to look at these things within the context.

“And then we look at the consequences. People who have suffered from paedophilia in childhood. What about those people when they reach adulthood? These people have problems. They’ve got psychological problems. They’re going to psychiatrists and you know, they’ve got all kinds of.

Who was Aisha [9-year-old girl who was married to Mohammad, the founder and prophet of Islam]? Aisha was one of the leading scholars of the Ummah [Islamic nation], the fourth most prolific narrator of hadith [narrations attributed to Mohammad and his way of life and rulings], you know. Scholar of Sharia [Islamic Law], honored by the Ummah [Islamic nation].

“She was the person with you know psychological problems and all these kind of things and her life was shattered? No.

“So obviously, that whole marriage situation was a legitimate marriage. It had nothing to do with paedophilia in any way shape or form. It was a legitimate marriage which produced you know positive and good results. And it was a marriage of that time.

“But it remains legitimate, that if a Muslim man in his 50s, even today, wanted to marry a young woman who was 9 or 10, she reached puberty, it is legitimate.

“The fact that the world is not doing it, and most places people are not doing it, it doesn’t mean that it no longer is permissible. No. It remains.

“And in some societies, I know for example in India, though you know the whole issue of what they call child marriages, they tried to ban it. It is officially illegal, but they have shown that well over 50 percent of marriages taking place in India today, in spite of the banning and everything else, the girls are marrying under age what they consider to be underage, it is like 16.”

In one of his lectures (Published on YouTube on June 11, 2015), Bilal Philips addressed the “consequences of delaying in Marriage.” He argued the delaying the marriage bring about moral corruption, such as pornography, masturbation, lesbianism and homosexuality. The following is the transcript of Bilal Philips’ lecture:

“Here in our lives where this attitude of time, spare time, we have time, you don’t need to do this now, is the area of marriage. Young people when they reach the age of marriage. Parents are saying to them. Don’t get married, no. Wait, finish your studies and. Wait until you’ve got a job and you earned enough and you can build this thing and that, yeah, that’s the time. So that doesn’t happen until you are in your thirties. Right? That may be ok for the man. But for the woman it becomes a problem.

“It becomes a problem. Delaying Marriage. And the Prophet [Mohammad] peace be upon him told us: يا معشر الشباب من استطاع منكم الباءة فليتزوج O young people who ever among you are able should get married.

“He said get married young. Get married young and we delay. So what happens? Those years, which are the most critical years, the years in which hormones are flowing, desires are strong. We tell them don’t get married.

“So what happens? People just turn it off and say ok. Turn off the desires, I’ll carry on. No. They end up in corruption. Either they’re watching, you know, pornographic stuff, which they shouldn’t be watching the channels etc. Now that these things are all available in this society or they engage, get caught up in masturbation or something like this, whatever they’re going end up doing things that they don’t need to be doing things, which are harmful to them. harmful to the society.

“That’s the consequence. Once we delay it brings in corruption. Worse than that, you end up with lesbianism, homosexuality gets born out of those circumstances.

“So the harm is great. We should marry young. We should marry our children young. And just so that you don’t think he’s saying that. It’s easy for him to say that. You know, my son was 16 years old, I got him married at 16. His wife was 18.

“They now have 6 kids, live in Dubai. Having a happy life. A good life God Willing (انشالله). My other son who just turned 17, he’s going to get married in August, God Willing, his wife is 15. So it can be done.

“You know who am I, you know, I‘m a convert Muslim. When I was studying in [the City of] Madeenah, I met one brother. Saudi in Madeenah. He had gotten married when he was 3 years old. I was shocked, 3 years old. Yeah, he got married [when] his wife was 2 and he was 3. Yeah. Not a problem. Praise be to Allah [الحَمْد لله] they are happily married, have bunch of kids and, you know, sure.

“When the Prophet [Mohammad] peace be upon him said, marry young and have a lot of kids, you see, he has all the opportunity. I mean you’ll be able to to to play with your great grandchildren, you know, you would not be so old you can’t even, you know, you’re lying on the bed all you can do is look at them and you can actually go and play with them, your great grandchildren.

“So, Praise be to Allah, I’m not going to say that you have to go and do that with your kids now, but I‘m just saying that you know, it works. There’s no harm in it in fact it prevents corruption and prevents corruption.”

In his book “Contemporary Issues” from 2002, which was accessible for downloading in the online library of the website Muslims of Calgary, Bilal Philips among other things justified the rationale of early marriage in Islam.

The following are excerpts from Bilal Philips’ book:

“CHILD MARRIAGES

“The Prophet (PBUH) has been accused of being a pedophile due his marriage to Aa’ishah at the age of 9…

“3. Islam sets the age of marriage at puberty, as it is the natural dividing line between childhood and adulthood. Menstruation indicates that a young girl has reached childbearing age. This age may vary from country to country, but it is discernible and not arbitrary…

“5. Islam stipulates that a girl or boy married before puberty will not live with their spouse until they have attained puberty. Furthermore, they have the right to cancel or proceed with the marriage when they reach puberty.

“6. Aa’ishah was seven when she was married off to the Prophet (PBUH) and she came to live with him when she reached puberty at nine…”

Canadian Imam: Muslim girls are eligible for marriage at the age of 8 years and 9 months

Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi, the Imam of the Islamic Shia Ithna Asheri Jamaat of Toronto and the Jaffari Islmic Centre in Thornhill Woods, discusses in his book “Marriage and Morals in Islam” the Islamic law and rulings regarding to the age of puberty and early marriage.

The followings are excerpts from chapter three “The Islamic Sexual Morality (2) Its Structure”:

“Sexual desire is aroused in human beings at the age of puberty. In Islamic legal definition puberty (bulugh) is determined by one of the following: 1. age: fifteen lunar years for boys and nine lunar years for girls…”

“Since the sexual urge begins at puberty and as Islam says that sexual urge should be fulfilled only through marriage, it has allowed marriage as soon as the boy and the girl reach the age of puberty. In the case of girls, it not only allows them to be married as soon as they become mature, but also recommends such marriage. It is based on such teachings that Islam discourages girls from postponing their marriage because of education; instead, it says that girls should get married and then continue their education if they wish to do so.”

“Physical maturity by itself, however, is not enough for a person to handle the marriage responsibilities; rushd (maturity of mind) is equally important…”

“If a person does not marry soon after maturing and finds it difficult to control his or her sexual desire, then the only way to fulfill the sexual desire is mut’a.”

“In Islamic laws, according to the Shi’ah fiqh, marriage is of two types: da’im, permanent and munqati’, temporary. The munqati’ marriage is also known as mut’a…”

“I cannot overemphasize the temporary nature of mut’a. The message of Islam is quite clear: marry on a permanent basis; if that is not possible, then adopt temporary abstinence; if that is not possible, only then use the mut’a marriage.”

Nine years in lunar year, the minimum age according Islam for girl to marry, is in fact 8 years and nine months in solar year, as the lunar year is shorter by 11-12 days of the solar year.

These Islamic rulings regarding the age of puberty are being taught in Islamic schools in North America. For instance, the textbook for 7 Grade students of the Islamic Shia Study Centre West Madrasah (ISSC) in Brampton, Ontario explains the definition of puberty in Islam, and consequently the duties (wajib) applicable to all mature males and females.

The following is an excerpt from “Lesson 6 Gender-Specific (for Girls)” appears on page 100 of the aforementioned textbook which also appeared on the site of :

“Signs of Bulugh

As boys and girls grow into men and women, they change physically and emotionally. This age of maturity is also called the age of puberty (or bulugh in Arabic). Boys mature (become bāligh) closer to the ages of 13-15 years. Girls mature earlier and in Islām are considered to be bāligha from the age of 9 (i.e. on her 9th Islāmic birthday).

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Comments

  1. JOHN SPIELMAN says

    October 31, 2016 at 2:28 pm

    of course a 50 year old muslim man “marrying a 9 year old girl is acceptable because muhammed, the” perfect man’ in islam WAS a PEDOPHILE PERVERT!!! AND HE CONSUMMATED HIS MARRIAGE TO LITTLE AISHA WHEN SHE WAS 9!!!

  2. Jac says

    October 31, 2016 at 2:52 pm

    “Bilal Philips explained that Islam defines puberty, meaning menstruation and capability of bearing a child, as the dividing line between childhood and maturity. He claimed that 1400 years ago 9-year-old girls were more mature than children today and life was much shorter. However, he maintained that marrying a matured 9-year-old girl remains legitimate. “If a Muslim man in his 50s, even today, wanted to marry a young woman who was 9 or 10, she reached puberty, it is legitimate,” he said.”

    Muslims still trotting out excuses for their debauchery!

  3. Kaos says

    October 31, 2016 at 3:11 pm

    Well it seems someone should tell Anthony Weiner that what he’s doing with his sexting to a 15 year old minor is okie dokie. Oh, that’s right you have to be a fuggin’ muzzie to get away with it. Weiner is looking at 15 years! He should also be castrated in my books! Why is it that the muzzies can do it as a cultural “thing”, but when we bring attention to such a vile practise it’s hate crime? Children are our last piece of innocence and these vile, perverted, mentally handicapped pieces of shit want to take that away from the children as well. Islam is a cult! No real religion would allow that to happen to children.

  4. DFD says

    October 31, 2016 at 3:13 pm

    Hi All,

    in a way off topic, but for those who believe that our ‘leaders’ ought to learn about Islam, that they are not fully informed, believe me, they know!

    Link:
    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/65628/Secret-plot-to-let-50million-African-workers-into-EU

    That’s from Saturday Oct 11, 2008 !!!

    You think that’s it?

    Today is a memorial day (For some Christians in Germany) for Parson Roland Weißelberg. He was always opposing and resisting the East German government. Later he became alarmed about the Islamization of Europe.

    Since nobody really listened, in a public protest
    ====================================.
    he burned himself to death, today in AD 2006!
    ===================================.

    Good man, have a look at him: http://pi-news.net/wp/uploads/2016/10/weisselberg-265×440.jpg

    As I said, in 2006. Our “leaders” knew and know fully well! This is planned for a long time. In Germany, initially among Pegida and AfD members, the term “Volks Verräter” has come to the fore, and is used more and more by others too.

    “Volks Verräter” means “Traitors to the People” where people implies culture, civilization and nationhood. The term “Volk” (the English “Folk” stems from it) has a very wide meaning in German.

    American readers: I hope to God that Trump wins. But, how much and what can he change? The raisinhead will have made far reaching changes or appointments within the power structures in your country, or your country’s institutions as it may. Trump has his work cut out. Of course, if you are stupid and vote Hillary… She’s still riding high, as does the traitor Merkel in Germany. Though, the latter is gradually losing. But the Germans voted for her several times, and you voted twice for the rasinhead – God help us.

    PS: Mohammed referred to black Africans as raisinheads and laughed about their appearance, so I am not insulting President Hussain, but honor his beloved prophet

    • gravenimage says

      October 31, 2016 at 3:50 pm

      So true, Champ–look at what they laud–raping little children, sex slavery, and mass murder.

      God, I hate Islam.

  5. gravenimage says

    October 31, 2016 at 3:43 pm

    Canada: Imam says 50-year-old man marrying 9-year-old girl is “legitimate” in Islam
    ……………………….

    Well, Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips’s not wrong. This child rape is mainstream Islam, on the model of the foul “Prophet”. Hundreds of thousands of little girls suffer child “marriage” in Dar-al-Islam every year. This is a conservative figure. In some places, the *majority* of girls are married off while still children.

    Here is one such case, with fatal results for the little victim:

    “Afghanistan: 8-year-old bride of mullah bleeds to death on her wedding night”

    https://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/05/afghanistan-8-year-old-bride-of-mullah-bleeds-to-death-on-her-wedding-night

    More:

    Police investigate alleged hate crime after flyers depicting Mohammad deflowering 9-year-old Aisha were sent in October 2016 to mailboxes in Edmonton, Alberta.

    CIJnews was told that the Crown Prosecutor believes that the this flyer meets the criteria of a hate crime, among other things because of its pornographic content.
    ……………………….

    How is *exposing* a vicious crime itself a “hate crime”? Suicidal madness.

    It is raping a nine-year-old child that is hate, not exposing it.

    Here’s my picture of the deflowering of poor little Aisha:

    http://s478.photobucket.com/user/gravenimageartist/media/AishasWedding-1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

  6. billybob says

    October 31, 2016 at 4:27 pm

    Well he makes a good argument. Only one big flaw… an eight or nine year old girl cannot give consent under our Western laws. Then a child cannot sign a marriage contract, nor can she go live with somebody under the guise of being his wife. Any attempt at consummating a marriage with such is pedophilia and rape under our statutes. So really, all his arguments are a meaningless rationalization to justify a barbaric religion.

    • gravenimage says

      October 31, 2016 at 7:49 pm

      Muslim females–even adults–do not sign the marriage contract. Her “Mehram”–usually her father–signs permission for the husband-to-be to have use of the female’s vagina. Seriously–that’s what “marriage” is in Islam. *Ugh*.

  7. davej says

    October 31, 2016 at 5:01 pm

    “Under our Western laws”. That is why they are so eager to replace them with Sharia.

    So they can marry 9 year old girls, have multiple wives, mutilate their genitals, dress them like bank robbers and murder their daughters if they consider they have offended Allah.

    Feminists? Is this all OK with you cause I’m not hearing anything.

  8. David says

    October 31, 2016 at 5:28 pm

    I’m sorry. But if my Grand Dad thought ANYONE (insane, savage, barbaric muslim or not) was going to rape any child, he would be reaching for the 12 gauge! And EVERYONE in town would be with him!
    Why isn’t this child molesting cockroach at the end of a rope?????

    • KrazyKafir says

      October 31, 2016 at 5:35 pm

      “Why isn’t this child molesting cockroach at the end of a rope?????”

      Because his prophet was a child raping cockroach, and he is protected by the liberal’s evil code that all cultures are equal. So the liberals will to anything absolutely anything, to ignore it, bury it, and if that fails……….shut you up even if they have to put you in jail.

  9. Angemon says

    October 31, 2016 at 5:34 pm

    The paedophiles who are coming out of Britain and Germany, this is the most largest body of paedophiles

    And just how many of them are muslims with foreign ancestry? Rotherham, all those kids raped in pools, etc.

  10. Islam the religion of killers says

    October 31, 2016 at 5:46 pm

    And the girl in the Pink Puffer jacket, said “Daddy who are the ones at the front sniffing”

  11. dumbledoresarmy says

    October 31, 2016 at 5:58 pm

    Actually, re claim that girls ‘matured’ ‘earlier’ in the 5th-7th century is very likely to be false.

    All the latest modern medical research suggests strongly that age at first menses was *later* – sixteen or seventeen – rather than earlier, among pre-modern populations. That’s because a girl has to have a certain body mass and a certain percentage of body fat; and in most pre-modern human populations and indeed among many ordinary people in western countries even in the 19th century, girls just didn’t *reach* that ‘triggering point’ of body mass – height and weight – and body fat, until their late teens.

    In any case: a girl doesn’t finish laying down her adult skeleton and bone mass until she is *eighteen*. Pregnancy before that age – unless she is *very* well-nourished – therefore involves competiton between the baby and the mother for available calcium and other critical nutrients. I understand that the available statistics show in general that pregnancies that happen before age 16 are more dangerous for both mother and baby than those that occur after that age. So very early marriage and childbearing are correlated with higher infant and maternal mortality. Child marriage is a *really* stupid and destructive idea, from a medical POV. Even in crazed-by-Islam Yemen people have not been able to avoid seeing this ugly reality – they call the very youngest “brides”, the girls who are subjected to ‘marital’ rape at age 8 or 9 or 10, “the brides fo death”. Yet even though they see that the practice is destructive, even though they have a proverb summing up the all-too-common lethal result, they continue to practise the forced ‘marriage’ of terrified girl-children.

    In Miriam Ali’s book “Without Mercy” – recounting her attempts to rescue her own underaged daughters who had been carted off to Yemen by their Yemeni Muslim father, and promptly sold off as slave-‘wives’ to much older male relatives – she encountered child-brides, girls married off between age 8 or 9 and age 13.
    Here, from a review of that book that a poster here at Jihadwatch offered to us, years ago, is an account of what happened to one such girl:

    “Zana had met so many girls taken from the Midlands (England), taken by force who were now in Yemen.

    “One was a petite blonde from Derby.

    “She was 9 years old when she was taken and had already three miscarriages when she became pregnant a forth time. This time the child had been stillborn. The death of this little baby had taken the child-mother’s sanity. She was 12 years old.”

    Mohammedans of course refuse to accept scientific fact, preferring their bizarre and antihuman fantasies that just happen to sacralise the lusts – indeed, the blatant sexual sadism – of a great many Dirty Old Men.

  12. Red Bee says

    October 31, 2016 at 6:50 pm

    The “Canadian Imam”, whatever that may be, is quite right marrying a 9 year old girl is legitimate in Islam. That is why, among other things, we want Islam gone.

  13. Paul Clark says

    October 31, 2016 at 6:55 pm

    The entire reward system of Islam is pleasure based. There are no true spiritual rewards, only sexual lust, perversion, gluttony and drunkenness without a hangover rewards.

  14. davej says

    October 31, 2016 at 7:19 pm

    The Religion of Criminals, Dirty Young and Old Men and torturing Psychopaths.

    It is impossible to exaggerate the Evil of Islam.

    Imagine a world free of this nasty ideology, this 1400 year old curse on Humanity.

    But instead it grows, creeping into new lands, subverting all that is good as it congratulates itself on it’s successful deception and insidious conquests.

    There is no more retrograde force in our current world. I hate Islam and I pity the unlucky born into it.

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20 Responses to Canada: Imam says 50-year-old man marrying 9-year-old girl is “legitimate” in Islam, a disturbing post from Jihad Watch.org complete with comments

  1. θ says:

    Islamic sources disputed the age of Aisha, hence the age of her marriage is remaining inconclusive and debatable. Historians calculate she married at 20 y.o. Six-year and Nine-year can be meant as the ages counted *after* she reaches her puberty, meaning the ages after she becomes a mature woman with the religious obligations and its consequences being put upon her.

    Moslems don’t determine a binding decision for the case which is derived from some debatable and disputable accounts. It has not yet been fixed.
    Determining a number for the minimum marriageable age is unwise.

    Fortunately, none of the Secularists and the Biblical followers can dispute the common-ground agreement with Moslems that the puberty is the earliest time of consent for both boys and girls.

    Malicious action of spreading a lie that Prophet Muhammad married a prepubescent Aisha should be regarded as a hate-crime (Islamophobia), thus liable for the criminal penalty.

  2. madmanna says:

    “Debates and heated arguments are ongoing about what age Aisha was when Muhammad actually consummated his marriage with her, but it is plain from these hadith, the earliest and most reliable available sources, that it is mainstream belief in Islam to hold that Muhammad did marry Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine.”

    You only have these hadith as reliable. There is no room for speculation.

    The onset of puberty is too early for marriage as the female is still in the growth process. This process should be allowed to go to completion and be finished before she is allowed to marry.

    Mohammed did wrong and Islam is wrong to sanction his example. He was an old man and it was wrong what he did and Muslims should admit this.

    That’s why you are trying to wriggle out of this moral dilemma.

  3. madmanna says:

    There is no law on the minimum age of marriage in the bible because this is the clear law of nature. Nature dictates what should happen.

  4. θ says:

    “madmanna says: There is no law on the minimum age of marriage in the bible because this is the clear law of nature. Nature dictates what should happen.”

    Do you think the nature suddenly changes when the Modern Secularism emerges?

    We should wonder why the Medieval Secularists in Age of Renaissance and Enlightenment had not come up with “decent” idea of minimum age of marriage.
    Can’t one wonder why the anti-Islamic apologists had never before criticised the marriage of Prophet Muhammad with Aisha until recently?

    Jews have the Rabbinical rules and Christians have apostolic traditions to follow on the marriageable age. Moslems have Hadith and Moslem Historians.
    Jesus makes the Rabbis as the absolute Role Model for Jews and Christians by saying decisively “Do whatsoever those Rabbis bid ye to do”. Certainly he approved their Oral Torah as well as the Talmud, Midrash, Gemarra, Targum, et cetera. According to the Rabbis, 12 y.o. Abishag was married by David. The Rabbis gives Jews a rule on Ketannah from 3 y.o. to 12 y.o. plus one day who can be married by Jews.

    Only hypocrites Christians argue against this role model:
    Mt 23:3
    All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do;

  5. θ says:

    “madmanna says: There is no room for speculation. The onset of puberty is too early for marriage as the female is still in the growth process. This process should be allowed to go to completion and be finished before she is allowed to marry.”

    It is you who speculate that the early Moslems marry the post-pubescent woman to get children immediately. You are wrong. Prophet Muhammad suggested the men to prefer marrying a young woman in order to just “fondle” each other with a coitus interruptus (parenthood planning), known as Azl, until the days she reaches what you termed as “completion of maturity process.” That’s quite liberal tough.

  6. madmanna says:

    A 50 year old fondling a 6 year old is wrong. That’s what Mohammed was doing wasn’t he? He wanted some pleasure for his dowry didn’t he?
    He was thighing her and poking her with his old fingers. Don’t you agree this is perverse debauchery?

  7. θ says:

    Thighing is the least option for a husband over his menstruating wife legitimately on purpose to prevent the adultery with other women, it is not option whatsoever between a fiance and fiancee, let alone with underage one.
    The betrothal just permits the in-house meeting (visitation as hanging out) and saying a proper saying.
    Q.2, v.235 There is no blame upon you for that to which you allude concerning a proposal to women or for what you conceal within yourselves. Allah knows that you will have them in mind. But do not promise them secretly except for saying a proper saying. And do not determine to take a marriage ties until it reaches the Scriptural terms. And know that Allah knows what is within yourselves, so beware of Him. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing.

    Practice of Islamic betrothal doesn’t give a permission for couple to physically grope, fondle, caress, let alone to fornicate, sleep and thighing on the bed. Even a fiance can’t sneak in, visit and stay at his fiancee’s house at time when her parents went out. Both fiance and fiancee are still liable for regular punishment of scourging if they get caught red-handed of fornicating under four eyewitnesses.

  8. Anonymous says:

    This Holier-than-thou mentality of the apologists is a recent phenomenon along with legalisation of the same-sex marriage praised by many churchgoers. There’s no such a critique or debate in the Age of Renaissances and the Enlightenment on this matter.

  9. madmanna says:

    You’re just making this up as you go along.
    A Muslim can do whatever Mohammed did not forbid himself.
    Where is it written that Mohammed forbade himself these pleasures?

  10. θ says:

    During the betrothal time Prophet Muhammad never took Aisha alone going out. They just hang out in her house.
    Yea the Hadith scholars acknowledge two loopholes of Law that oftentimes spares any girl from the Shari’ah’s lashing or scourging, but it is much better for them to not know those things (as prevention).
    (i) Difficulty of getting a legal requirement of four eyewitnesses.
    (ii) A girl could defend herself that she was raped or coerced under duress by her fiance.

    Mostly the Shari’ah case of adultery along with its scourging penalty just take place after the girl refuses to file a report that she was a victim of rape by her friend.

    Every virgin who gives her consent to go out with a man should have known a risk of being raped.

  11. Anonymous says:

    Every man who takes a girl’s consent to go out should have known a risk of being accused by her as her rapeist, her molester, or her groper in the case of sexual abuse.

  12. madmanna says:

    You are not answering my question, which I will repeat:

    Where is it written that Mohammed forbade himself these pleasures?

  13. θ says:

    Qur’an and Hadith forbid every Moslems both men and women from having a lusting gaze, as well as forbiddance of spending time privately without presence of family members.
    Q.24, v.30. Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts. That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do.

    Bukhari, Book 25, Number 5403,
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al ‘As, Some persons from Banu Hisham entered the house of Asma’ bint Umays when Abu Bakr also entered (and she was at that time his wife). He (Abu Bakr) saw it and disapproved of it and he made a mention of that to Allah’s Messenger and said: I did not see but good only (in my wife).Thereupon Allah’s Messenger said: Verily Allah has made her immune from all this. Then Allah’s Messenger stood on the pulpit and said: After this day no man should enter the house of another person in his absence, but only when he is accompanied by one person or two persons.

    Bukhari, Book 25, Number 5399,
    Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah, Allah’s Messenger said: Behold, no person should spend the night with a married woman, but only in case he is married to her or he is her Mahram.

    Tirmidhi, Number 3118,
    Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said, Whenever a man is alone with a woman the Devil makes a third.
    Tirmidhi, Number 3119,
    Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah, The Prophet said, Do not visit women whose husbands are away from home, for the Devil circulates in you like your blood. He was asked if this applied to him also and said, To me also, but Allah has helped me against him so that I may be safe.

    Bukhari, Vol. 9, Hadith No. 409
    Narrated Ibn Mas’ud, A man kissed a woman and then came to Allah’s Messenger and told him of that, so this Divine Inspiration was revealed to the Prophet: And offer prayers perfectly at the two ends of the day, and in some hours of the night. Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds. That is a reminder for the mindful. (Qur’an 11:114) The man said, Is this instruction for me only? The Prophet said, It is for all those of my followers who encounter a similar situation.
    Al-Wahidi, Asbab Al-Nuzul, Verse 11.114
    Abu’l-Yusr ibn ‘Amr who said: A woman whose husband was sent with an army by the Prophet came to me and said: ‘I want to buy one silver coin worth of dates’. I liked the woman and so I said: ‘I have in the house dates which are much better than these, so come with me’. I touched her and kissed her. I then went to the Messenger of Allah, and related to him what happened. He said to me: ‘You have betrayed a man who is fighting for the sake of Allah in relation to his wife with the like of this’. And he put his head down on me. I thought I was of the dwellers of hellfire and that Allah would never forgive me. But then Allah, exalted is He, revealed (Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night). The Prophet sent for me and recited it to me.
    Ibn ‘Abbas who said: A man went to ‘Umar and said: ‘A woman came to buy from me, I took her inside an antechamber and did with her everything except intercourse’. ‘Umar said: ‘Woe unto you, her husband is absent fighting for the sake of Allah’ I said: ‘Yes, he is’ He said: ‘Go to Abu Bakr [and see what he says]’. He went to Abu Bakr and he said exactly as ‘Umar said. He said: ‘Go to the Messenger of Allah and ask him’. He went to the Prophet and related to him what he had already related to Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. The Messenger of Allah said: ‘Is her husband away fighting for the sake of Allah?’ When the man confirmed it, the Messenger of Allah did not speak with him. This verse was then revealed (Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night. Lo good deeds annul ill deeds), and the man asked: ‘O Messenger of Allah, is this for me specifically or is it for everyone?’ ‘Umar struck his chest and said: ‘No, it is for everyone’. The Messenger of Allah laughed and said: ‘ ‘Umar is right’ .
    Mu’adh ibn Jabal who reported that he was sitting with the Prophet when a man came and said: O Messenger of Allah, what do you say about a man who touches a woman who is unlawful for him to touch, such that he does everything that a man usually does with his lawfully wedded wife, except that he does not have intercourse with her? The Prophet said to him: Perform minor ritual ablutions properly and then stand up to pray. Then, Allah, exalted is He, revealed this verse (Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night) up to its end. Mu’adh ibn Jabal asked: Is this for him specifically or for all Muslims? He replied: It is for all Muslims.
    Ibn Mas’ud who said: A man came to the Prophet and said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, I have fondled a woman except that I did not sleep with her’. Allah, exalted is He, revealed [as a response] (Establish worship at the two ends of the day and in some watches of the night. Lo! good deeds annul ill deeds).

    Muwatta, Book 41, Hadith 16
    Malik said, The position with us about a woman who is found to be pregnant and has no husband and she says, ‘I was forced,’ or she says, ‘I was married,’ is that it is not accepted from her and the hadd is inflicted on her unless she has a clear proof of what she claims about the marriage or that she was forced or she comes bleeding if she was a virgin or she calls out for help so that someone comes to her and she is in that state or what resembles it of the situation in which the violation occurred. He said, If she does not produce any of those, the hadd is inflicted on her and what she claims of that is not accepted from her. Malik said, A raped woman cannot marry until she has restored herself by three menstrual periods. He said, If she doubts her periods, she does not marry until she has freed herself of that doubt.

  14. θ says:

    Concerning sex, it is important to beware that 1,000 years old Devils in each man’s veins are so powerful, they can make the most wisest scholar (such as ones in Iran and elsewhere) turn so stupid, losing self-control, falling down like a sexual predator, let alone the rich men with fame, success, and power.
    Nobody, except Prophet Muhammad alone, can control the sexual urge.
    Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 6, Number 299
    Narrated ‘Abdur-Rahman bin Al-Aswad: ‘Aisha said, None of you could control his sexual desires as the Prophet could.

    Tirmidhi, Number 3119,
    Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah, The Prophet said, Do not visit women whose husbands are away from home, for the Devil circulates in you like your blood. He was asked if this applied to him also and said: To me also, but Allah has helped me against him so that I may be safe.

  15. θ says:

    Some people may mistakenly consider Islamic marriage is too liberal rather than conservative or orthodox.
    Thrice permission of Azl:
    Muslim, Book 8, Number 3373
    Abu Sa’id al-Khudri reported: We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘Azl with them. We then asked Allah’s Messenger about it, and he said to us: Verily you do it, verily you do it, verily you do it, but the soul which has to be born until the Day of judgment must be born.

    Permission of intercrural fondling such as Thighing is given with a menstruating wife.
    Bukhari, Book 6, Number 298
    Narrated ‘Aisha: During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me.

    Coitus and Intercrural such as Thighing require mutual synergy, lest angels interfere with curses.
    Bukhari, Book 62, Number 121
    Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning.

  16. madmanna says:

    You still haven’t answered the question.
    Where is it written that Mohammed forbade himself any pleasure with his six year old wife Aisha except full penetration?

  17. θ says:

    Qur’an Q.24, v.30 forbids every Moslems – by using the word “believing men” to include Prophet Muhammad – from having a lusting gaze and leaving private part unprotected toward women.
    Q.24, v.30. Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts. That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do.

    Qur’an Q.2, v.235 forbids any fiance from making any secret advancement physically toward his fiancee until their betrothal reaches the Scriptural terms.
    Q.2, v.235 There is no blame upon you for that to which you allude concerning a proposal to women or for what you conceal within yourselves. Allah knows that you will have them in mind. But do not promise them secretly except for saying a proper saying. And do not determine to take a marriage ties until it reaches the Scriptural terms. And know that Allah knows what is within yourselves, so beware of Him. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing.

    Prophet Muhammad uses the word “no man” to include himself.
    Bukhari, Book 25, Number 5403,
    Narrated Abdullah ibn Amr ibn al ‘As, Some persons from Banu Hisham entered the house of Asma’ bint Umays when Abu Bakr also entered (and she was at that time his wife). He (Abu Bakr) saw it and disapproved of it and he made a mention of that to Allah’s Messenger and said: I did not see but good only (in my wife).Thereupon Allah’s Messenger said: Verily Allah has made her immune from all this. Then Allah’s Messenger stood on the pulpit and said: After this day no man should enter the house of another person in his absence, but only when he is accompanied by one person or two persons.

    Prophet Muhammad uses the word “no person” to include himself.
    Bukhari, Book 25, Number 5399,
    Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah, Allah’s Messenger said: Behold, no person should spend the night with a married woman, but only in case he is married to her or he is her Mahram.

  18. madmanna says:

    You keep citing laws that don’t apply to couples that are married.

  19. madmanna says:

    You still haven’t answered my question. Where is it written that Mohammed forbade himself any sexual pleasures, except full intercourse, after he had married his child bride Aisha who was six years old?

  20. θ says:

    “madmanna says: You keep citing laws that don’t apply to couples that are married.”

    In Islam, both practice of betrothal and marriage are called Nikah. The consummation of betrothal to be a formal marriage needs a judge (Qadi) for validation. Any betrothal that was imposed upon an underage girl can be immediately invalidated by herself after she attains her puberty – as she now has personal responsibility and consent – without any compulsion of anyone.
    Bukhari, Vol. 9, Book 86, Hadith 101
    Narrated `Aisha: Allah’s Messenger said, It is essential to have the consent of a virgin (for the marriage). I said, A virgin feels shy. The Prophet; said, Her silence means her consent. To people he said, If a man falls in love with an orphan slave girl or a virgin and she refuses (him) and then he makes a trick by bringing two false witnesses to testify that he has married her, and then she attains the age of puberty (Fa adrakat Faradiyati) and agrees to marry him and the judge (Qadi) accepts the false witness and the husband knows that the witnesses were false ones, he may consummate his marriage.

    Betrothal of Islam is marked by a financial symbol called “Sadaqa” (bride-price) or “Hiba” (gift). Nevertheless, any future annulment of the betrothal would put obligation on the fiance to give up a half of the price for his fiancee, unless she or her family gave a pardon and a writing-off.
    Muwatta, Book 28, Hadith 11
    He (Malik) said, Whatever is given as a condition by which marriage occurs belongs to the woman if she wants it. If the husband parts from her before the marriage is consummated, the husband has half of the unreturnable gift (Hiba’) by which the marriage occurred. Malik said about a man who married off his young son (ghulam) and the son had no wealth at all, that the bride-price was obliged of the father if the young man had no property on the day of marriage. If the young man did have property the bride-price was taken from his property unless the father stipulated that he would pay the bride-price. The marriage was affirmed for the son if he was a minor only if he was under the guardianship of his father. Malik said that if a man divorced his wife before he had consummated the marriage and she was a virgin, her father returned half of the bride-price to him. That half was permitted to the husband from the father to compensate him for his expenses. Malik said that that was because Allah, the Blessed, the Exalted, said in His Book, “Unless they (women with whom he had not consummated marriage) make remission or he makes remission to him in whose hand is the knot of marriage.” (Sura 2:237). He is the father of a virgin daughter or the master of a female slave.

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