If Mohammed had heeded the words of Jesus he would never have gone to war with the Meccans

John 4 v 19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 

Mohammed would have said, our fathers worshipped in this Kaaba. And Jesus would have said to him: Mohammed believe me the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers worship neither in the Kaaba nor in Jerusalem but they worship God in spirit and truth, not with their bodies either being located or pointing in a particular direction. Sad for the world that Mohammed paid no heed to the words of Jesus but obstinately refused to worship God in spirit and in truth, leading many others astray with him on the broad way that leads to destruction and causing the deaths and ruined lives of many.

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28 Responses to If Mohammed had heeded the words of Jesus he would never have gone to war with the Meccans

  1. θ says:

    Prophet Muhammad did a self-restraint for 13 years.
    Jesus himself shall break his own pacifism, his Golden Rule is not absolutism, hence why would anyone follow something which Jesus himself shall abandon?

  2. θ says:

    If Christians had heeded the words of Jesus the early and Medieval Moslems would never have gone to war with the Christians world, and they would have rendered what belongs to Moslems.

  3. Jo Jo says:

    Because He was fully God and Fully Man. the 2nd Adam, fulfilling God’s intent for the human race which was to be sinless and pure, innocent even in thought. Matt 5:28. As the Perfect Man He walked the earth as our ONLY Perfect Example. As HOLY PURE God, He is fully justified to render judgement on the world for its rebellion against Him, on the Judgement Day. Outside of His Righteousness impugned to us as believers in His Deity, there is no excuse for any man.
    Our lives are like beautiful priceless cups with good but not completely good contents. Through Jesus, God throws out the cup, (buried w Christ)gives us His own new cup(raised w Him to walk in newness of Life) and fills it w new clean contents( Seal/gift of the Holy Spirit+1 John 1:9) which we offer to God as our offering to Him, daily. Its called the New Covenant. Awesome way to live in victory over the snares of the enemy. 2 Peter 1:3-9. Jesus Came to DESTROY the works of the Devil! and He did. 1 John 3:8.

    I humbly suggest you read the Life of Mohammad by Ibn Hisham. Compare this to the Life of Jesus in the Injeel. May God allow you to see why Injeel REALLY means “Good News”.

    Peace to you!

  4. θ says:

    “Jo Jo says: As the Perfect Man He walked the earth as our ONLY Perfect Example.”

    No, Jesus was not a good man, just as he confessed and showed when insulting and blaspheming all God’s Prophets as criminals, thieves and a coward hireling.
    Jn 10
    8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

    Jesus also didn’t defend himself from the public accusation of abandoning his own beloved follower to die of sickness.
    Jn 11:37
    And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?

  5. Jo Jo says:

    Hostility originates between us and God. God holds Christians Jews Muslims and everyone accountable to His words. The rebellion is humanity’s and it offends Him. All of us are without excuse according to God’s Righteous Standard. Rom 2:12-16

    Eph 2 says He is the only one that can remove the wall of Hostility by killing it.

    14 For he(Jesus) himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

    This is one reason why Jesus is the Prince of Peace. Sadly, even Christians don’t always represent Him well.

  6. θ says:

    How could a perfect man hesitate to prevent many sinners from repenting by otherwise authoring so much confusion thru his speech?
    Mk 4
    11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

  7. θ says:

    “Jo Jo says: Hostility originates between us and God. God holds Christians Jews Muslims and everyone accountable to His words. The rebellion is humanity’s and it offends Him. All of us are without excuse according to God’s Righteous Standard. Rom 2:12-16”

    Jesus didn’t show a compassion toward his beloved follower by intentionally delaying and forsaking him to die of sickness, so how could he reconcile anyone with God?

    Jesus didn’t show a respect to all God’s Prophets before him, even blaspheming them. So how could he reconcile anyone with God?

    Jesus didn’t genuinely guide the sinners for repentance by intentionally authoring so much confusing speech on purpose to mislead them, so how could he reconcile anyone with God?

  8. Jo Jo says:

    Jesus is echoing what God said he would do in Ez 34:15

    ” I Myself will shepherd My sheep…”
    God here is expressing his deep anger towards the pharisee and Jewish leaders/Teachers( Not really the prophets) for not carrying out their responsibility to care for God’s people. Jesus HIMSELF came as THE Good Shepherd fulfilling this Ez. passage. Prophecy from the Jewish Bible. AWESOME.

    Re the other, I think you are referring to lazarus who Jesus later raised from the dead to give greater Glory to God. The Glory of God is His Highest Value. Our sins rob God of that Glory. Our offense is against the Eternal God and for that He requires an Eternal Sacrifice: Jesus paid that for you. Thats how great His love is for you. But it takes humility to admit we are sinners. Not pleasant.

    Good comments!
    Peace to you!!

  9. θ says:

    “Jo Jo says: God here is expressing his deep anger towards the pharisee and Jewish leaders/Teachers( Not really the prophets) for not carrying out their responsibility to care for God’s people. Jesus HIMSELF came as THE Good Shepherd fulfilling this Ez. passage. Prophecy from the Jewish Bible. AWESOME.”

    Jesus uses the word *all* that came before him. Otherwise, the ways of salvation of all Prophets must be as perfect or equal as that of Jesus.
    Why can’t Christians so arrogantly admit the flaw of Jesus?

    “Jo Jo says: Re the other, I think you are referring to lazarus who Jesus later raised from the dead to give greater Glory to God. The Glory of God is His Highest Value. Our sins rob God of that Glory. Our offense is against the Eternal God and for that He requires an Eternal Sacrifice: Jesus paid that for you. Thats how great His love is for you. But it takes humility to admit we are sinners. Not pleasant.”

    Do you justify sin in order to make the grace abound? God forbid.
    Letting a person die is sin.

    “Jo Jo says: But it takes humility to admit we are sinners. Not pleasant.”

    Yeah, Jesus takes humility by refusing to called “Good”, yet Christians are too arrogant to accept his humility:
    Mt 19:17
    And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    Even the Bible acknowledged the sins of Jesus, but Christians are too arrogant to accept his fallible nature:
    Heb 7:27
    To offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

  10. Jo Jo says:

    How could a perfect man hesitate…
    Hey friend!!
    This is an awesome question. The answer is that God is always interested in the condition of our hearts. What is our attitude towards Him? Is there pride in us? A Callous unwillingness to see/acknowledge to Him we are sinners and lost w/o His help?

    Consider Jesus Words in Matt 13. Notice how He quotes the Jewish Bible again:

    …14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.…

    Consider what Jesus said to Peter

    …16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.…

    Friend, the bottom line is our self righteous efforts deeply offend God because He demands complete purity. And His perfect justice executes wrath and condemnation on all rebellion W/O MERCY, apart from Jesus’ sacrifice. Consider 1 John 2.

    1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you will not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate before the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    Maybe you should humbly ask God about your own heart. Moses said “If with all your heart you truly seek Him, You will ever surely find Him…

    Great promise. Its between you and God. Ask Him…

  11. θ says:

    “Jo Jo says: Hey friend!! This is an awesome question. The answer is that God is always interested in the condition of our hearts. What is our attitude towards Him? Is there pride in us? A Callous unwillingness to see/acknowledge to Him we are sinners and lost w/o His help?”

    Well, Jo Jo buddy, you can’t use the bitter time of God’s wrath during the time of Isaiah to prove Jesus’ compassion. If you read the book of Isaiah, God doesn’t reconcile but breaks the covenant He made with Jews temporarily, that is to end the Davidic kingdom and expel all Jews from His lands.

    “Jo Jo says: Friend, the bottom line is our self righteous efforts deeply offend God because He demands complete purity. And His perfect justice executes wrath and condemnation on all rebellion W/O MERCY, apart from Jesus’ sacrifice. Consider 1 John 2.”

    My pal Jo Jo, pardon me for being a realist. You can’t find a purity on Jesus. Even the Bible acknowledged the sins of Jesus, but Christians are too arrogant to accept his fallible nature:
    Heb 7:27
    To offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

  12. madmanna says:

    Stop being devious like your prophet. We are not easy to fool like superstitious pagans.

    Hebrews 7 v 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

  13. madmanna says:

    If you read the book of Isaiah, God doesn’t reconcile but breaks the covenant He made with Jews temporarily, that is to end the Davidic kingdom and expel all Jews from His lands.

    Judgement doesn’t break the covenant.

  14. madmanna says:

    God is faithful. He never cast off the Jews and replaced them with the Arabs.

  15. madmanna says:

    The Jews were the first members of the new covenant church. The Jews first and then the Gentiles.

  16. θ says:

    “madmanna says: God is faithful. He never cast off the Jews and replaced them with the Arabs.”

    Does Jehovah lie when saying this verse?
    Zech 11
    10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. 11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

    From all Biblical debaters and apologist arguments I ever read till these days, nobody has ever given a strong rebuttal to answer a question regarding Zech 11:10 that God is not bound by the unrequited promise. A Promise of God is null and void to Jews if they do not reciprocally honor it.
    Zech 11:6
    For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour’s hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.

  17. madmanna says:

    “Does Jehovah lie when saying this verse?
    Zech 11
    10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.”

    This is the prophet who is breaking his covenant with the people, not Jehovah.

    Judgement doesn’t break the covenant, it confirms it.

  18. θ says:

    “madmanna says: This is the prophet who is breaking his covenant with the people, not Jehovah. Judgement doesn’t break the covenant, it confirms it.”

    You can’t back up your arguments.
    1. Since when has Prophet had a covenant with *all* the people?
    2. Zech 11:6-10 showed the speaker is Jehovah (saith the Lord).
    Zech 11
    6 For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour’s hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.9 Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.10
    And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.

  19. madmanna says:

    The prophet broke his shepherd’s staff.

  20. Jo Jo says:

    God Chose Israel. His Abrahamic covenant is unconditional. But here, He is removing protection of national Israel b/c they rejected The Good Shepherd: Jesus.
    So, God is not contradicting Himself. Quite the opposite.

    Your question re this passage leads us back to fulfilled prophecy re Jesus’ Deity. Read further. It even refers to the 30 pieces of silver Judas was given.

    Peace to you!

  21. θ says:

    “madmanna says: The prophet broke his shepherd’s staff.”

    The context of Zech 11:6-10 showed the speaker is Jehovah (saith the Lord). Now, if the speaker were Zechariah, is he one member of multiple persons of Jehovah(s) too? Has Zechariah killed or cut off three shepherds in one mouth?
    Could Zechariah show no pity to the land?
    Has Zechariah caused Jews to eat the human flesh one another?

  22. θ says:

    “Jo Jo says: God Chose Israel. His Abrahamic covenant is unconditional. But here, He is removing protection of national Israel b/c they rejected The Good Shepherd: Jesus. So, God is not contradicting Himself. Quite the opposite.Your question re this passage leads us back to fulfilled prophecy re Jesus’ Deity. Read further. It even refers to the 30 pieces of silver Judas was given.Peace to you!”

    Peace to you too, Jo Jo.
    Chosenness has nothing to do with the broken covenant. Don’t forget, the surviving Gentiles after the Deluge were chosen to keep what we called “Noahide covenant”. After God breaks it, God re-accepted them again by “transform” the defunct Noahide covenant with the New Testament of Jesus. Both covenants are for Gentiles.

  23. Anonymous says:

    Equal chosenness of the Gentiles.
    If we read the Tanach and the Gospels without imposing a racial bias, we can accept the fact how God has firstly chosen Noah’s family out of the rest of the extinct world in the ancient times, including Sam the son of Noah (Semites) and Ham (Egyptians), yet then God broke up the Noahide covenant with those old Semites trying to drive them out of the Canaan land, trying to exterminate them all (but not entirely), handing over Canaan and Priesthood to Isarel, after the Gentiles refuse to commit to the Monotheism.

    However, despite their failure of keeping the Noahide covenant, God still has a little-known plan to re-graft or re-use the Gentiles. Firstly, the broken Noahide is reused with the Christ’s New Testament. Next, in the future, as the Tanach prophesied thru Isaiah, God has a same plan to re-graft again both the Semites and Hamites, by even emphatically calling Egyptians “my people”:
    Isa 19
    25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

    By same analogy of Isaac and Israel’s nation, Noah’s descendants must be chosen of God as well.

    Plainly, God chooses the Persian (Cyrus) as the “anointed” one of God. By same analogy, his descendants must be chosen as well.
    God chooses the Babylonian (Nebuchadnezzar) as the “servant” of God. By same analogy, his descendants must be chosen as well.

    There are two epochs of Fullness.
    After the time of Fullness ended for the ancient Gentiles, God starts the era of Israel covenant during the time of Moses and Aaron.
    In the future, after the time of Fullness gets fulfilled for the Gentiles, God shall return to re-use the Israel’s covenant again.

    By the way, Paul also confirmed that thing. Right now, the natural branch (Israel) has fallen down *from* the fat olive tree, just as God didn’t a bit spare the fallen angels and Noah’s heathens. That’s irreversible.
    Rom 11
    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    After the time of Fullness gets final term for the Gentiles, God shall return to re-graft the Israel’s covenant, either by reusing the old one, or just renewing it, or giving the newer one. That’s easy for God.
    Rom 11:23
    And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
    Lk 21:24
    And Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    Isaiah prophesies a little-known re-grafting of Gentiles in the future:
    Isa 19
    23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. 24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: 25 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

  24. madmanna says:

    If God had broken the covenant he would not have commanded the temple to be rebuilt. This was the sign and substance of the covenant.

    The covenant could not be broken. It could only be fulfilled and made obsolete as Jesus said in the sermon on the mount.

    Jesus Fulfills the Law
    17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    The law itself establishes the descendants of Jacob as the people of God and this did not pass away until it was fulfilled.

  25. Anonymous says:

    “madmanna says: If God had broken the covenant he would not have commanded the temple to be rebuilt. This was the sign and substance of the covenant.”

    On the contrary, the disappearance of God’ sanctuary twice proves to all that God has made the old and the new covenant really broken.
    Moreover, as the parable of fallen branches in Rom 11:23, only the “broken” branch needs to be re-grafted again into the olive tree. A farmer doesn’t re-graft an attached branch.

    First, the Bible hinted that God is not bound to the unrequited covenant. God breaks what he wants.
    Isa 33:8
    The highways lie waste, the wayfaring ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.
    Ps 89:39
    Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.

    Secondly, God says He “will make” an everlasting covenant. Something that is not made is not given yet. How could you get what is not yet made? Future tenses is not past tenses.
    Ezek 37:26
    Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

    Hence, just like one complete package, the tangible token is given for all humans to see and know of the everlasting covenant. It shall be the everlasting standing of the sanctuary.

    Now, on the contrary History proves that neither the 1st temple nor the 2nd temple stand forever, hence the everlasting covenant is not yet made by God.
    The destruction of God’s sanctuary twice – in the time of Isaiah and the time of Gospel (70 AD) – is the most simplest Biblical proof for all to see that neither Jewish Old Testament nor Christian New Testament are the everlasting covenant which God will make for humans.
    Simple evidence: If the NT or the OT were everlasting, the sanctuary in Jerusalem must have stood forever, but in fact it didn’t.

    “madmanna says: The covenant could not be broken. It could only be fulfilled and made obsolete as Jesus said in the sermon on the mount.”

    Not so. God says literally that he breaks the covenant, he made void the covenant of his servant.
    Isa 33:8
    The highways lie waste, the wayfaring ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.
    Ps 89:39
    Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
    Zech 11
    10 And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.

    “madmanna says: The law itself establishes the descendants of Jacob as the people of God and this did not pass away until it was fulfilled.”

    The re-grafting again the repented descendants of Jacob shall be made in the future upon the other covenant that God will make, with a simple token of having the of the sanctuary stood forever for all to see.
    The breaking of the covenant happens. It is one thing, whereas the re-grafting is another thing.
    Something that we can ensure is: it is so easy for God to re-graft again what has been broken.
    Rom 11:23
    And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

  26. Anonymous says:

    Israel is the people of man, if Israel is the servants of God. Isaiah confirms with the strong words: God regards no man.
    David confirms God doesn’t hesitate to break his covenant with sinful man and wicked servant, including that of Israel.
    Isa 33:8
    The highways lie waste, the wayfaring ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man.
    Ps 89:39
    Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.

  27. θ says:

    In the realist sense, choosing the less of two or three evils is a virtue.
    If Moslems and the world had heeded a suicidal “giving thy right cheek” of Jesus, no

    In Political aspect of Islam, a neutral regime is weakened by two competing rivals. For instance, such a newly-born regime of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was easily toppled by the established pro-West and the pro-Russian forces from both sides.

    Such a newly-born regime of Qaeda’s Taliban in Afghanistan was easily crushed because both the established pro-West and the pro-Russian forces unified to end it from both sides . The group went to hiding and just won such an unpopularity contest. The West just can be fooled once, or twice, by a temporary psychological fear of the radicals. But after that, still Material superiority matters most in a realist sense.
    Allah dislikes the empty rhetoric without a factual strength.

    Those who call a war against a less evil Wahhabism of Saudis must be pro-Shiites or at least having a pro-Iran agenda, no matter how western they are.
    Those who call a war against an evil of Shiites (such as in Syria) find a bitter realism how their “Western patrons” just sacrifice them alone. Neither the US nor the Europe would come to mess with the Russians.

  28. θ says:

    Correction.
    In the realist sense, choosing the lesser of two or three evils is a virtue.
    If Moslems and the world had heeded a suicidal incentive of “giving thy right cheek” of Jesus, there would not have been enough cheeks to satisfy the evil’s indulgence of violence.

    In Political aspect of Islam, a neutral regime is weakened by two competing rivals. For instance, such a newly-born regime of Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was easily toppled by the established pro-West and the pro-Russian forces from both sides. The Black Markets of arms-dealers are not reliable at all, even treacherous, as they always go to another higher bidder.

    Such a newly-born regime of Qaeda’s Taliban in Afghanistan was easily crushed because both the established pro-West and the pro-Russian forces unified to end it from both sides . The group went to hiding and just won such an unpopularity contest. The West just can be fooled once, or twice, by a temporary psychological fear of the radicals. But after that, still Material superiority matters most in a realist sense.
    Allah dislikes the empty rhetoric without a factual strength.

    Allah chooses realism more than rhetoric.

    Those who call for a war against a less evil Wahhabism of Saudis must be pro-Shiites or at least having a pro-Iran agenda, no matter how western they are. What Sunnis an hope of the Wahhabis is, to reduce their existential dependence of the West’s dictation.
    On other hand, those who call for a war against an evil of Shiites (such as in Syria) find a bitter realism how their “Western patrons” just sacrifice them alone. Neither the US nor the Europe would come to mess with the Russians.

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