Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

Psalm 2 v 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

God never actually spoke these words to David. He only spoke them to Jesus because only Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father when he came in to the world.

These words may have been written to or about David in some sense but God never spoke these words to David face to face. Even as a king he is simply appointed and anointed by God to rule, but he is not begotten as if there is a special process involved. To claim that David is begotten is to devaluate the exclusive meaning of the word as it applies to Jesus alone. God the Father has never spoken these words to anyone except to Jesus alone.

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10 Responses to Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee

  1. θ says:

    It is appalling that none renders Latreauo to Jesus.
    David doesn’t render Latreauo to either the begotten Son, or to the Holy Spirit, or to the Wisdom.

    In a royal perspective, not all sons of the king are his crown-prince.
    Everyone must be Son (adoptive, foster, bastard) but not all sons are begotten. Jesus is not begotten from the beginning. It is the main point of Arius in Arian Controversy that caused an unsolvable heartache for Athanasius and Trinitarians till nowadays. Arius rightly points out that it needed eons of time for the God to completely become the real Begetter of the Son.

    So many creations are called “Son” adoptively, from Adam, Jacob, Ephraim, David, Solomon, to angels. Figurative “Son of God” is a title for mortal reverence or mortal lordship. A proper Arabic word for it is “Sayyidi,” contrary to religious Lordship “Arbaban”.

  2. madmanna says:

    “It is appalling that none renders Latreauo to Jesus.
    David doesn’t render Latreauo to either the begotten Son, or to the Holy Spirit, or to the Wisdom.”

    During his earthly ministry it wasn’t the time or the place. He first had to suffer humiliation as the suffering servant and carry out his mission in order to qualify for Latreauo:

    Mark 10 v 45

    King James Bible
    For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

    As soon as he was resurrected and entered his kingship he received Latreauo from his disciples which has continued ever since and will continue on for all eternity.

  3. θ says:

    “madmanna says: During his earthly ministry it wasn’t the time or the place…… As soon as he was resurrected and entered his kingship he received Latreauo from his disciples”

    First. How can Jesus be Jehovah if he can’t be Jehovah always? Why is the earth be so “magical” so that Jesus can’t receive Latreauo on the earth?

    Second. You must have confused Disciple’s Proskuneo to two angels of Jehovah in Lk 24:5, to Jesus?

    As soon as the Disciple rush in to the tomb ground, they are greeted by two angels, and they fall down worshiping (Proskuneo) two angels who sit upon the tomb. Those angels don’t bother accepting their reverence, don’t rebuke them, don’t correct them of bidding Proskuneo to them.
    Why?
    Because two angels of the tomb are angels sent directly from Jehovah’s presence, whereas some post-ascension angels (who talk with Peter, Cornelius, and John in the book of Acts and Revelations) are the lesser messengers sent by Jesus, not directly by Jehovah, hence they refuse to accept human’s Proskuneo.
    Lk 24
    5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

    Not only Jesus’ joint-receiving of honor, eventually the resurrected believers shall be the joint-recipients of honor of Jews.
    Rev 3:9 I will make them to come and worship before thy feet.

    None renders Latreauo to Jesus both before and after his ascension.
    Some desperate Trinitarians try to insist on the bidding of Latreauo to “God” of the Great White Throne (Rev 20:11, Rev 22:3) by making a great blunder – showing off their humiliating ignorance of the Bible’s knowledge – of wrongly speculating that the “God” on the throne is Jesus, simply because
    They, desperate Trinitarians, insist on their unbiblical nonsense that Father “shall not judge” anymore in the future. They misinterpret John 5:22. In fact, the Father shall judge. In John 5:22 Jesus simply infers that whenever he is judging, the Father doesn’t judge.
    Hence, it doesn’t mean the Father himself doesn’t judge anymore. Also it doesn’t mean the Father would not entrust similar or identical authority of judgment to the other mortals. The Father alongside the Books of Life, certain angels, and the believers shall be the judges as well.
    1Pet 1
    17 The Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
    Jn 8
    16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
    Jn 12
    48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
    Rev 20
    12 The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    1Cor 6
    3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?
    Lk 22
    30 And sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    For instance, after one angel inflicts the Babylon with death, the heavenly hosts praise Jehovah for having judged her.
    Rev 18
    1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

    Other occasion, after one mighty angel drowns down the Babylon into the sea with a millstone, the heavenly hosts praise Jehovah for having judged her.
    Rev 18
    21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

    Moreover, after Babylon is finally over, all heavenly servants both great and small altogether – including the Son whose voice is as sound of many waters – worship Jehovah:
    Rev 19
    5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

  4. madmanna says:

    “First. How can Jesus be Jehovah if he can’t be Jehovah always? Why is the earth be so “magical” so that Jesus can’t receive Latreauo on the earth?”

    Who said he couldn’t?

    It was the will of Jesus to receive worship from those who had a full understanding of who he was and what he had achieved. This was necessary to give him the full glory in worship which was due to him.

    The belief appropriate to it could only be present in the mind of the disciples after his resurrection.

    It was only then that they could have a full understanding necessary to worship Jesus in spirit and in truth. A truth in which nothing was lacking. This was not possible before the resurrection.

    It was only then that they could have a full understanding necessary to the giving of Latreauo to Jesus as the risen Son of Man.

    Thomas is a good example of this.

  5. madmanna says:

    “Lk 24
    5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?”

    Speech is an integral element of Latreauo so it clear that the disciples are not worshipping the angels in this sense.

  6. θ says:

    Why Jesus can’t be recipient of Latreauo? Because:
    (i) As long as Jesus has dualism, he still has one visible created nature, hence Latreauo can’t be given to him.
    Rom 1:25
    Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.

    (ii) None bids Latreauo to Jesus in the final Judgment:
    Rev 22
    3 The throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.

    – If both God and the Lamb were to receive Latreuo, John would have simply used the third person plural pronoun “them” instead of the singular “him”.
    – If Latreuo were for the Lamb alone (due to the use of word “him”), then why does Latreauo not be referred to God? why does Jesus receive Latreuo but God does not? It would have been upside down.

  7. madmanna says:

    “If Latreuo were for the Lamb alone (due to the use of word “him”), then why does Latreauo not be referred to God? why does Jesus receive Latreuo but God does not? It would have been upside down.”

    It’s the singular personal pronoun which means that only the Lamb is referred to here as receiving Latreauo from his servants. This destroys your whole argument.

    Text Analysis
    Strong’s Transliteration Greek English Morphology
    2532 [e] kai καὶ And Conj
    3956 [e] pan πᾶν any. Adj-NNS
    2652 [e] katathema κατάθεμα curse N-NNS
    3756 [e] ouk οὐκ not Adv
    1510 [e] estai ἔσται there will be V-FIM-3S
    2089 [e] eti ἔτι. any longer; Adv
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
    3588 [e] ho ὁ the Art-NMS
    2362 [e] thronos θρόνος throne N-NMS
    3588 [e] tou τοῦ – Art-GMS
    2316 [e] Theou Θεοῦ of God N-GMS
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
    3588 [e] tou τοῦ of the Art-GNS
    721 [e] Arniou Ἀρνίου Lamb, N-GNS
    1722 [e] en ἐν in Prep
    846 [e] autē αὐτῇ it PPro-DF3S
    1510 [e] estai ἔσται, will be; V-FIM-3S
    2532 [e] kai καὶ and Conj
    3588 [e] hoi οἱ the Art-NMP
    1401 [e] douloi δοῦλοι servants N-NMP
    846 [e] autou αὐτοῦ of him PPro-GM3S
    3000 [e] latreusousin λατρεύσουσιν will serve V-FIA-3P
    846 [e] autō αὐτῷ, him. PPro-DM3S

    It does not follow from this that the Father does not receive Latreauo also from the servants of the Lamb except by your perverted logic. The text is simply pointing out that the Lamb has servants appointed for the specific purpose of serving him. Your unitarian presupposition is not proven but assumed on your part.

  8. θ says:

    Giving a Latreauo to the creature (since the Lamb is still attached to his dualism, a visible created nature) is a sin:
    Rom 1
    25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.

    The so-called servants of the Lambs can’t enter the temple because they are filthy:
    Rev 2
    20 By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.

  9. madmanna says:

    Your arguments are unconvincing.

    Worship is directed to the person, which in the case of the Lamb, is the uncreated Logos.

    Rev 2 v 20 is speaking of other servants.

  10. θ says:

    The Lamb was created, a visible creation.

    The author of the book of Hebrew assured that any visible thing of the visible world is made, framed, and upheld by the “Unseen Word” spoken by God.
    Heb 11
    3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word [ Rhemata ] of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

    Phrase “things which are seen” includes the visible Son – or the Lamb – who manifests the Father. Author of the book of Hebrew infers that the Son is creation. Jesus (whose title happens to be the “Word of Life” in 1 John.1:1-2) is visible, perceptible, and touchable by the other visible ones.

    The Son is visible (icon, image, bright expression). Jesus’ word is audible.
    God is invisible. Specific God’s word that frames the worlds is not audible.
    Jn 5
    37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

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