One Lord, one faith, one baptism. The testimony of the book of Ephesians.

1 v 2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 v 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1 v 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, 16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

2 v 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

3 v 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

3 v 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

4 v 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

4 v 17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind

5 v 8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

5 v 15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

5 v 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

5 v 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

6 v 1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise;) 3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

6 v 4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

6 v 5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

6 v 10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

6 v 21 But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: 22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts.

6 v 23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. {Written from Rome unto the Ephesians by Tychicus.

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60 Responses to One Lord, one faith, one baptism. The testimony of the book of Ephesians.

  1. Anonymous says:

    The statement of faith “one God” is more important than “one Lord”.
    It’s interesting the phrase εἷς Θεὸς = eis Theos – one God – happens twice in the Bible at 1 Cor 8:6 and Eph 4:6, referring to God worshiped by Jesus.
    1 Cor 8:6
    But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    Eph 4
    6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    One of the biggest weakness of Trinitarians is, they cannot argue using the Greek words, whereas JWs argue using Greek words and Hebrew words, hence the argument of JW is more scholarly strong.

    From so many Lords – title of obeisance – in the Bible, nowhere does the Bible call Jesus “Lord God”, only “Lord Christ”, hence though the angels and men worship (Proskuneo) him, but no one serves (Latreuo) him.
    Compare the use of Latreuo at Act 7:7 for God and Diakon for Jesus at Luke 17:8 and John 12:26.

    From so many Lord, nowhere does the Bible call Holy Ghost “Lord Spirit”, hence no one worships (Proskuneo) or serves (Latreuo) it.

  2. madmanna says:

    “One of the biggest weakness of Trinitarians is, they cannot argue using the Greek words,”

    We don’t need the greek, we have the KJV.

    “The statement of faith “one God” is more important than “one Lord”.”

    This is just your opinion. The bible does not support this, e.g.

    Zechariah 14 v 9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

    Deuteronomy 6 v 4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

    Jesus is also called God in the NT.

  3. Anonymous says:

    First. The statement of either “one Lord” or “one God” excludes Holy Ghost from being Jehovah.
    Secondly. The context of Deut 6:4 is one Lord God just Jude reiterates again
    Jude 1
    4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

  4. madmanna says:

    The Lord Jesus Christ is the referent of the term “Lord God”. So you were wrong when you said that Jesus is never called Lord God.

    Otherwise it would say: “denying the only Lord God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ”.

    The Lord and the God cannot refer to two different beings. The teaching of the bible is that they are the same.

  5. Anonymous says:

    KJV Bible showed the “only Lord God” refers to “one” Father consistently, even the Son whose voice is the sound many waters calls the Father Lord God. In Luke, the Father shall give Jesus the throne of David. In Revelation the Lamb worships the Father by calling Him Lord God.
    Lk 1
    32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.
    Rev 19
    6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

  6. madmanna says:

    Jude 1 v 4 has it’s own context which shows that the Lord God means Jesus.

  7. madmanna says:

    19 v 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

    This is not specifically restricted to the one who sits on the throne. Neither does Luke specifically restrict the meaning of the term to mean the Father only.

  8. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Hey, let me try to silence this wise trinitarian.

    Isaiah, the apostles and Jehovah ( in Hebrews ) calls Jesus God. Does that make Jesus a God-being?

    From the words of your other God, trinitarian in John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God… Jesus didn’t even say he is God but just a Son of God. Adam was also son of God. The angels are called God by God.

    Jehovah called those human judges God, to mean as God’s representative. Jesus said if God calls them God, why can’t he be called God? If calling somebody God by Jehovah himself makes you a God-being, then your trinity fails.

    Let me post here what i posted in the other blog earlier today. Please indulge me, blog master.

    hey.

    i am not a unitarian nor a trinitarian.

    i believe jesus is before abraham was. or something like that.

    i think the trinity is just an old fake faith strongly validated not by expilicit bible verses ( only three persons are in one god-being ) but by the strong political arm of that roman empire led by constantine. we don’t have to believe their explanations as to the trinity being the mystery of god that cannot be explained nor even mentioned in the Bible because it was already in the hearts of the early christians in the Bible. These roman christians are all dead.

    I haven’t done any advanced studies in one of those trinity colleges. Jeez, with so many learned Bible experts in Hebrew and Greek languages quoting Bible verses you would expect they would be able to explain how three persons can be one being and not three beings. They cannot even give an honest and decent analogy of the trinity except to say it is like Cerberus, the three-headed dog or even a center of consciousness within centers.

    There is nothing in our world both physical and spiritual that are three and at the same time one. Except of course accidents of nature like conjoined triplets. WOW. The trinitarian God is a conjoined triplet. So it is possible. Hahaha.

    Do Jesus,Jehovah and the spirit have one spiritual body but three individual heads? Jeez,to think we were created in the image of God. Are we also three-person human beings? The trinitarian God is just a conjoined triplet. One being with at least three heads. But we are not a world of conjoined triplets. A conjoined triplet is an accident of nature. Never meant to happen. Maybe we will evolve to become the image of the trinitarian God.

    Three persons in one Being. But Jesus has three Beings. Jesus has the being of God, the being of man and the being of an angel ( He being the Angel of God who receives worship ). The spirit of God has two beings. The spirit has the being of God and the being of a dove. Only Jehovah has the being of only God. If you believe the trinitarian magic.

    Three persons in only one being. So each distinct person is only a third of a being. Jesus is a third of a being. Jehovah is a third of a being. the Spirit is a third of a being. How sad and pathetic is your God trinitarian, by your own words. Each person cannot be one complete distinct being. WHY NOT? YOU TELL ME.

    Jesus is God. Jehovah is God. Spirit is God. Only one God but three persons. BUT The God-being who is Jesus is not the God-being who is Jehovah is not the God-being who is the Spirit. SO you have three separate beings who is each God but not each other.

    How can the spirit of Jehovah be a separate person from Jehovah? Is your own spirit a different person from you with the human body? If the Spirit of Jehovah is a separate person from Jehovah, then the spirit of Jesus must be a separate person from Jesus the Spirit. So if you believe the trinity arguments,then you actually have four separate persons in God. But then again, if the spirit of Jehovah is a different person, then the spirit of the spirit of Jehovah must be another different person. Nothing in the Bible says explicitly that God is a three-person being. Besides God is one being ( Shema ) for the trinitarian can just mean also God is one united being, or united beings.

    The spirit of the Father and the spirit of Jesus cannot form your God the Spirit. THINK TRINITARIAN WHY NOT. The answer is your own answer trinitarian, maybe not you yourself but a favorite trinitarian line.

    Jesus saying he and the father are one doesn’t mean Jesus is a God-being. Otherwise they who are one with Jesus ( in the Bible ) are also God-beings. Besides that statement disproves the trinity if you believe that. Jesus is not including the Spirit in the union of Jesus and the Father. Besides one here can mean united. Meaning a union of God-beings.

    Jesus using the I AM phrase not because he is another deity. He uses I AM because HE IS. Not all the Jews say in the Bible are true. Not all the apostles say in the Bible are true. The Jews wanted stone him because he said existed before Abraham, not that he is a God-being. Jesus used the I AM phrase in other instances but nobody complained.

    Jehovah, the prophets and the apostles call Jesus God. Does that make him another God-person? Jesus himself said that Jehovah called the human judges God,so why can’t he be called God. That is the reason of Jesus why he can be called God by the Prophets ( Isaiah ), apostles ( Thomas ) and by Jehovah ( Hebrews ),if the Hebrew writer is to be entirely believed.

    I will not use Jesus calling the Father the only true God because I haven’t found out the counter-argument when the trinitarian say Jesus is also called Only Lord,etc. I think in that verse the Father is the only God and Jesus is the only Lord. Denying the antecedent fallacy defense doesn’t work because Jesus said Father is the only God. If you are not the Father, then you are not God. The only God is the Father. The denying the antecedent fallacy works only without the word only or one describing the consequent. If there is only one consequent for that antecedent, denying the antecedent denies the consequent because there is only one consequent.

    Peace,

    and another one post

    Each of your divine persons is a third of a being only. Nobody is fully God-being.

    Besides, only your God the trinity is a God-being. Jesus is not divine. Jehovah is not divine. Spirit is not divine.

    Because only your God the Trinity is a three-person being. Jesus is a one-person being. Jehovah is a one-person being. The spirit is a one-person being not separate from the Father. Nobody in your trinity is divine except this mythical three-person being that nobody in the Bible talks or mentions about.

    The Matthew Commission to baptize in the one name of the three doesn’t mean that name is the trinity.

    In Revelation 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

    There is only one throne for God and of the Lamb? Is there actually only one throne for the both of them? Hey, where is the throne of the Spirit of God? The 24 elders and the apostles and the judges have thrones but the third person of your God has no throne?

    How about Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day the LORD will be one and his name one.

    God’s name will be one. Will the three divine persons in the trinity become one person, proving once and for all the biblical validity of the trinity? Or is it the three divine beings will become one being,as prophesied in Zechariah 14:9.

    I think there is a ten-headed dragon in Revelation that the trinitarians can cite as a being with more than one “person”. Hahaha.

    Daniel received worship from the Persian King. The people worshipped God and King David.

    Have faith, trinitarian. Let those billions who believed in your mythical God have your wise and learned company. Do not abandon them. How can so many be so wrong? Narrow is the door and only Elijah and the 7000 did not worship Baal.

    In Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

    But nobody wrote about God as one three-person being, except these fake early church fathers outside the Bible.

    The trinity is not heard but overheard in the Bible. Is written between the lines of the Bible. Is preached after the OT and before the NT…

    Without the NT, will there be any idea that God is a three-person being? Nobody worshipped the three-person God in the OT. If God is really a three-person God, those worshipping the one true God of Jesus in the OT should have been killed by Jehovah. How dare these Israelites not to worship also the other two persons in Gods’ Being? Those who saw God in the OT saw only one person in one being seated in one throne. That is the written proof that God is a one-person being in the OT. Where is the trinitarians’ proof that God is a three-person being in the OT? God saying let us create man in our image? Pleeeease. Are we three-person beings, in the image of the trinitarian God? Aren’t angels closer to God in form than humans? If some being is created in the image of God, they are angels not humans.

    Hahaha, utmost be so hard to admit that it is not written explicitly or even whispered as a secret of God in the Bible. The mystery of God is Jesus.

    I believe Jehovah created Jesus first. The Jesus created everything else. There is nobody equal with God. The demons battle with Jesus and the angels in Revelation. Can you imagine somebody who created everything by proxy should need to wage war with the demons? By his word he can obliterate them. No need for him personally as a God-being to wage war. Let his loyal followers have revenge on those who persecuted them. God can come out of nothing. He can go back into nothing.

    Superior beings to man can assume human form without being fully man. Spiritual beings shift form from spirit into human just like Jesus did when he materialized into a locked room after his resurrection. In a blink of an eye, did Paul say that. There are no empty bodies of human beings with no life that the angels left after they transformed back to spirits. So Jesus is God-man. Is the angel Gabriel I think an angel-man? Is the holy spirit a God-dove?

    Jeez. Trinitarian. Jesus was correct when he said that those who called him Lord and even banished demons in his name will not be saved except those who follows what he says. Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? I say the Father is the only true God and you trinitarians love me so much you tell me that I am also the only true God and the spirit is also the only true God. But I never said that, Jesus said. ( not in the Bible )

    Your zeal is not based on the knowledge from the written words of the Bible. The Bible does not tell us how God came to be God. And all other stuff. But not to know who is the only true God as a mystery of God that nobody during the time of Jesus received some progressive revelation ( i am not sure if i am using the correct trinitarian term ).

    I battled ( debated ) with two trinitarians ( one in a kindle book review with a trinitarian author- he pulled out his ebook because everybody can see in his comments that he cannot post his answers to my questions about his beloved trinity except to say to read his book. He was a PHD student in Divinity in South africa. The other one by email who was a SDA based in australia. He quit because he used the meaning of words in Greek or Hebrew to defend his trinity. I told him that you only go there if you know the meaning of the sentences. I mean,if you are looking for buried treasure would you dig deeper if you are not sure you are in the right spot?

    Tell me this since you are learned and wise ( from what I read in your discussion with David KC ), why are sins against the holy spirit unpardonable but the sins against the son and the Father are?

    How can John 1:1 not mean that Jesus is divine, using the words of Jesus himself?

    end of second post.

    I am sharing my thoughts against the trinity in you trinitarian blog so people will see how you really know the trinity and answer the questions from people who laughs at your three-person God.

    I hope God will help me answer your trinitarian points as you will answer mine. Thanks. Sorry about the laughing part. I just can’t believe there will be people who will waste their money on studying the trinity from people who don’t even understand the consequences of the trinity. It is not enough you say you love God. Love for God is to follow what he says. Or for you trinitarians to follow what Jesus says.

    I am done. I hope this is not a screed.

    Peace.

  9. Anonymous says:

    ” madmanna says: This is not specifically restricted to the one who sits on the throne. Neither does Luke specifically restrict the meaning of the term to mean the Father only. ”

    Two important terms in JW theology are Latreuo (serving the God) and Proskuneo (obeisance to Lord). They are used simultaneously for the Lord God. Bowing and prostrating are two acts of obeisance, hence as Jesus receives obeisance he is called Lord.
    Fasting and prayer are two acts of serving God.
    Since Jesus prostrates to God, he bids obeisance to Him, and since he also fasts and prays to God whom he calls “Lord the Father”, he serves the Father.
    Lk 2
    37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

    Jesus serves the Father by calling Him “Father the Lord”.
    Mt 11
    25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
    Jesus also bids reverence to God, hence God is his Lord:
    Mk 14
    35 And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.

  10. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says:They cannot even give an honest and decent analogy of the trinity except to say it is like Cerberus, the three-headed dog or even a center of consciousness within centers.”

    The concept of incorporeal spirits – is introduced in the New Testament with the story of “Legion” of devils – diabolos ex machina, that is many are one, one is many.
    According to the Greek mythology the nature ” ousia” of Zeus and Olympus Gods is identical with the nature of Neptune and of Hades that are fathered by a couple Cronus and Rhea.
    In Hinduism the nature of Brahma is identical with the nature of Shiva and of Vishnu that are fathered by Brahman.

  11. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Many are one can mean they are united. Never does it mean that many beings become one being. Just you should know. Distinct Persons with Identical natures mean you have similar beings. Not one being anymore.
    Peace.

  12. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Pleaseee. trinitarian.

    Many spirits in one human doesn’t compare to the three persons as one being of the trinity. Many persons are in one family, in one city, in one tribe. But the family, the tribe, the city does not have the same essence as the persons in them. The trinity says the each person has the same essence or the one essence of God.

    Are you saying the demons and the humans where they are in are one being?

    Why do you need to know about those false Gods of the other religion when you don’t even know the one true God of Jesus?

    The trinity is a false concept much like the geocentric model, as the ether model and evolution.

    Peace.

  13. Anonymous says:

    I think the depiction of three conjoined being is incorrect. There’s no “being” in God of the Trinity. Nature (ousia) of God of the Trinity is one abstract concept that “scatters” in many recipients, as depicted in the scene of baptism: a dove, a man, a voice. God of the Trinity does not have a supposed “compact being” but he has three persons with three beings.
    (i) During the time God begins the creation, the Spirit hovers above the water.
    (ii) After Adam sinned, the Son walks on the ground of Eden.
    (iii) When Adam sits in the plain of Mamre, three men – not three conjoined being – talk with him.
    (iv) When the Son reunites with the Father in Heaven they are not conjoined or merged but separated.
    (v) The Lamb will live with his Bride wherever he goes, the Father will be alone, the Ghost will live indwelling each of bodies of the Bride, of the sons, of the daughters and other partakers of divine nature.

  14. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Nope, i do not accept your argument.

    You again contradict yourself.

    Three persons in one being who is God. That is the trinity.

    You must be a SDA who believes in the trinity as three persons who are actually three divine beings. But the scary thing about your three persons as three divine beings is that your one God is actually a council of Gods, very much like Zeus and his other Gods. Let us see how many people remain your church if you preach that.

    You say
    (i) During the time God begins the creation, the Spirit hovers above the water.
    (ii) After Adam sinned, the Son walks on the ground of Eden.
    (iii) When Adam sits in the plain of Mamre, three men – not three conjoined being – talk with him.
    (iv) When the Son reunites with the Father in Heaven they are not conjoined or merged but separated.

    Just a minor slip in your part, Moses not Adam was in the plain of Mamre.

    All you said proves that the three persons are NOT just one singular being. Not the trinity.

    I think I will waste my time answering your posts until this day only. I will not be notified of your new comments even if it gives me great pleasure to show you how wrong you are using your own arguments.

    You contradict yourself and the great trinitarian tribe.

  15. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says: But the scary thing about your three persons as three divine beings is that your one God is actually a council of Gods, very much like Zeus and his other Gods. Let us see how many people remain your church if you preach that. ”

    God of the Trinity is theoretical abstraction. He is not one being but three beings that are separated always from the beginning to the everlasting. Nowhere is the Bible depicting one being with three conjoined heads, even though it describes in detail certain creature such as four-faced cherub and seven-headed beast.

  16. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Like I said, preach that God is one singular group of Gods and let us see how many remains in your cult. Christianity was called a cult in the Bible or words to that effect.

    Hahaha.

    Like I said, just try preaching that God is actually one singular united group of divine beings and let us see how many you can convert. I know you can get some.

    But you debate the trinitarians who believe God is a three-person being, not me.

    Are you seriously thinking that the four-faced cherub and the seven headed beast actually exist for real even in the spiritual world?

    Thank your correcting me. Seven headed beast with ten horns was it?

    Peace.

  17. Anonymous says:

    Jesus never claims being one of the assembly of mortal Gods in Ps 82. In fact Jesus can never be one of mortal Gods of Ps 82 because he ascends to Heaven after he dies – after being mortal – not before.
    The Word is attribute of God in the beginning.
    The Word is not the Agent of creation. Along with the Spirit and the Wisdom, the Firstborn is Agent of creation – he (but not being the 1st man) walks in Eden after Adam sinned – however no one of three Agents of creation is elevated to the level of God.
    On the earth, Jesus just claims being the Son of God – because now the Father is the father of all things – and after his death he will not be one of the mortal Gods of Ps 82.

  18. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Please. trinititarian

    Do you understand the words you are using?

    assembly of mortal Gods? mortal Gods? aren’t real Gods ( not those who pretend ) immortal?

    what are the essences of these these agents of creation? Are they persons?

    Please. You can deceive yourself into thinking you are wise in knowing the stuff you just mentioned but you can’t still answer my questions

    Again,
    Can you not use the statements of Jesus found written in the Bible that refutes the trinitarian claims that Jesus is divine when citing John 1:1?

    Can you not use the statements of the apostles found written in the Bible that explains why the sins against the Spirit is unpardonable while sins against the Father and Son are not?

    Do you actually believe that the Holy Spirit comes into a person ONLY AT OR AFTER BAPTISM?

    Hahaha. You still have 12 hours before I leave you alone in your pre-childish ideas.

    As today, i will take pleasure in proving you wrong using your own words and the words in the Bible. If you are wrong.

    If I am wrong, I thank you for enlightening me.

    Who cares about agents of creation like they are the fantastic four?

    Know which things in the Bible are important like who or what God is. But you cannot do that. You are not enabled.

    Peace.

  19. Anonymous says:

    In psalm 82 the judges and kings and priests are called Gods – despite being mortals – because they receive Tanachic word to defend the poor and fatherless, do justice to the afflicted and needy, to deliver the poor and needy, and to rid them out of the hand of the wicked.

  20. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    You are so childish.

    The only real God is immortal.

    Didn’t I say that?

    The only one singular true God is immortal.

    Again,

    Can you not use the statements of Jesus found written in the Bible that refutes the trinitarian claims that Jesus is divine when citing John 1:1?

    Can you not use the statements of the apostles found written in the Bible that explains why the sins against the Spirit is unpardonable while sins against the Father and Son are not?

    Do you actually believe that the Holy Spirit comes into a person ONLY AT OR AFTER BAPTISM?

    People will see in this blog that you don’t really understand the Bible.

    Don’t worry though, you are in the same boat as the trinitarians.

    Peace.

  21. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    so now you say there are many actual Gods even the human mortal Gods are actually divine.

    Yep, admit that.

    Peace.

  22. Anonymous says:

    The terms God and Gods are man-made wording. In Greek the term is theos. Only one true God whose name Jah or Jehovah in Hebrew is divine.

  23. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Jeez. Doesn’t everybody know that?

    and again you contradict yourself.

    Are you sure you are human and not a poorly programmed robot?

    you said In psalm 82 the judges and kings and priests are called Gods – despite being mortals

    you said Only one true God whose name Jah or Jehovah in Hebrew is divine.

    you said Jesus never claims being one of the assembly of mortal Gods

    Hahaha. You beat yourself.

    You argue with yourself.

    You contradict yourself.

    That means you don’t really know what you are saying.

    Nope. I am done with you. You lose.

    to badmanna blogmaster who believes in the trinity, thank you for giving me the chance to post my arguments against the trinity.

    And still no word from any trinitarian to answer my challenge.

    Peace.

  24. madmanna says:

    You’re welcome. All in due time.

    Peace.

  25. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Aha. So you are alive. madmanna blogmaster.

    I thank you again for allowing me to post my anti-trinitarian arguments on your pro-trinitarian blog without edits or censorship, unlike the other blogs of pro-trinitarians.

    As is your goal I believe in debating with people with different beliefs in support of your faith, I will always be hesitant to wage war ( thru honest and respectable online discussions ) against the trinitarians because I don’t want to meet the one mythical grand trinitarian with the so called secret knowledge and argument from the Bible that I cannot defend with the grace of God the Father. I will and have waged online battles/debates with your kind four times now with anonymous in this blog. I destroyed their arguments using their own words to demolish the biblical validity of the arguments for the trinity in the eyes of those who are searching for the true God.

    Like I said, as with those Israelites ( except the Levites ) who didn’t choose God but the golden calf and who worshipped Baal ( except Elijah and the 7000 ), even in the presence of Moses unless you and anyone in your trinitarian tribe is enabled by Jehovah or Jesus, you will always believe in your three-person God.

    I know I won the debate because they never answered the points in my posts. They pretended nobody in the world knows about the inconsistencies and inanity of the trinity that I just pointed out. Not to offend you, blogmaster. They keep answering with statements that contradict their previous statements. Until they stopped answering because all their arguments for the deity of Christ and the three-person nature of God and the separate personhood of the Spirit are non biblical and false using the statements in the Bible and the trinitarians’ own words.

    Nevertheless, if you are like me willing to wage war ( thru online debates ) so we can know God better, I salute you.

    There is no valid biblical and sensical counter-argument to my points that require much time to answer. Take your lifetime to post an answer.

    Just to make it easier for you to find a response, just answer these eleven points about the trinity.

    1. Why is the spirit of Jehovah a separate person from Jehovah himself? Does that mean your own spirit is a separate person from you the human? Does that mean that the spirit of Jesus is a different person from Jesus the Spirit? Doesn’t having the Holy Spirit as the spirit of Jesus and Jehovah contradict your argument for the trinity that it is three persons in one being? The spirit of God is the spirit of Jesus and Jehovah. Two spirits in one spirit is contradictory using your trinitarian arguments.

    2. If all three persons in your trinity is in one being, are you saying each person is just a third of a being? Your three God-persons are each not fully God-beings. Each God-person is a third of a God-being. If each God-person is fully God, then you have three God-beings in one God-being. Each God-person as a God-Being is distinct from the God-being of the other God-persons. So you have three God-beings. The question now is how can each God-person be a complete distinct God-being when you say three beings cannot be one being.

    3. Jesus used the I AM phrase not as his name but because HE IS. Are you sure that when Jesus used the I AM phrase the Jews always interpret that usage as Jesus claiming to be divine? You have only one time that the Jews complained when Jesus used the I AM. It was when he claimed he was older or as old as Abraham. Don’t you think that is why the Jews tried to stone him, and not because he used the I AM phrase as a name but because HE IS?

    4. How are the three persons one singular being (personal) or is it one unified being (non personal)? Sharing the same essence means you have three beings. Having one singular being means each is just a third of a being. Which is it, blogmaster?

    5. How did Jesus in his words written in the Bible deny his apparent deity when trinitarians cite John 1:1? How did Jesus deny his divinity even though Jehovah, the prophets and the apostles call him God?

    6. How are sins against the spirit unpardonable but sins agains the father and son are not? Using the words of the apostles.

    7. Does the spirit come into you after or during baptism only?

    8. Why do we need to be born again so we can be saved?

    9. What is the trinitarians text-proof in the OT that God is a three-person being? In some blog posts and audio debates,the trinitarians claim that unitarians cannot cite a biblical verse saying God is only one singular person in the OT. That is why they don’t have to cite their proof that God is a three-person being in the OT. Well, let me tell you this. The elders with moses saw one singular person seated on the one singular throne of God. One singular person with one singular crown on its one singular head. Moses talked with God face to face. Is that one face or three faces talking to Moses? Stephen in the NT saw one singular person seated on the one singular throne of God, with your other God-person on Jehovah’s right hand. Besides where is the throne of the Holy Spirit anywhere in the council (? ) of God? If each person in your God is God, why doesn’t he have a throne? The elders in heaven have a throne. You don’t have a throne for him because he is not a distinct person from Jehovah.

    10. Besides the Holy spirit as a distinct person destroys your three-person-as-one-being excuse for noncontradiction. The holy spirit as a distinct person is inside each christian. So how many persons of the Holy Spirit are there? The essence of God stays inside the vessel or form of God. His essence is not present everywhere. Otherwise, I must be God if God’s essence is in me?

    11. How can you have only three persons in one singular being when Jesus has four beings: man, God, angel and lamb; when the spirit has two beings: dove and God?

    Cmon trinitarian. Just be honest and post your answers. I know you have answers. But you are scared to be proven wrong in front of your trinitarian tribe. Have faith. Defend the trinity now or tomorrow. Of course you know the answers, your answers. You know them now.

    Let me warn you though, I have won three online honest debates and discussions against the trinitarians. If you post your answers be prepared to be proven wrong in front of the whole internet world who knows about this blog.

    One SDA trinitarian quit the debate because I won’t discuss with him the meaning of words. I told him that he doesn’t understand the meaning of the sentences in even his own ebook about the trinity. Even in his own ebook he doesn’t understand his own sentences. Poor guy. He only admitted one fault of his arguments ( he didn’t believe that the fullness of God is also in the Christians and not only in Jesus until I cited the verse ).

    Will you have an excuse to retreat from this debate? Or will you do the honorable thing and admit that you are mistaken in the way you present the nature of God as the trinity?

    I like doing this online debates so my knowledge of the nature and identity of God will become deeper and more compatible with the words written in the Bible thru the grace of God who gives me the answers to each trinitarian argument.

    I just used up 90 minutes of my time writing this post.

    My partner has relatives in Germany. Maybe 10 years from now I can visit you there or wherever in Europe you are.

    Thanks.

    Peace.

  26. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    One last thing blogmaster.

    One of these three tenets of trinitarianism actually is its self-destruct button. It destroys itself.
    1. God is a three-person being
    2. Jesus is divine.
    3. The spirit of Jehovah is a separate and distinct person from Jehovah.

    What do you think it is?

    God is a three-person being.

    Let me explain. By the grace of God.

    Son is a one-person a third of a being. Father is a one-person a third of a being. Spirit is a one-person a third of a being. Son is not even one singular being. Father is not even one singular being. Spirit is not even one singular being. Otherwise, you have three beings in one singular being. A contradiction you trinitarians gleefully say you avoid. But doing that means each person is a third of a being, not fully God-being.

    Anyway, a divine being is a three-person being. Jesus is not divine. Father is not divine. Spirit is not divine. Only God the Trinity is divine. Because only your God the trinity is a three-person being. Actually there are some trinitarians who wrote these statements or something like those in their ebooks not knowing that it means Jesus, Jehovah and the Spirit are therefore not divine because they are each not three-person beings.

    Boom. Boom. Boom.

    Jeez thats why the trinity is a three-person God. Otherwise, only one Boom. Hahaha. See I even laugh three times. The trinity is everywhere. I am joking so you know. But you are not, I know.

    The trinity just removes the divinity of Jesus, Jehovah and the Spirit by its own statement and declaration.

    Self-destruction by its own arguments.

    I told you the trinity is just an antiquated concept like geocentrism, the ether ( Isaac Newton suggested its existence) and the recent concept of evolution. Powerful learned men 1800 years ago who clearly do not understand the teachings of Jesus cannot rely anymore on the Roman Empire’s influence and power to force us to defend and accept the trinity as the correct nature and identity of the God in the Bible. We can destroy it and reject it, as we should without fear of persecution from the Roman Empire.

    But it is up to you trinitarian if you will defend your faith, as God has shown it to you. Will you be like the many who worshipped the golden calf even in the presence of Moses who just came from God? Will you be like those who worshipped Baal which has numerous powerful priests? Or will you be like Moses and the Levites who can see that Moses just came from God? Or will you be like Elijah the only priest of the one true one-person God and the 7000 whom God has chosen not to worship Baal?

    Again, if you cannot cite any text-proof from the OT that God is a three-person being, I will always say you cannot prove that from the OT God is a three-person being.

    Please do not say that a one-person God is actually the three-person God. Hahaha. That will only mean that you concede that you cannot show God is a three-person being in the OT.

    This took 60 minutes to write.

    When are you posting your answers, trinitarian? I suggest you do not. You will be proven wrong by your own words or by its implications. Have faith in your trinity. I think you need to set up a council to enable you to provide the answers to my questions about the trinity. Then you vote on which version you think is biblical. I am kidding.

    I can see that you lose already trinitarian. I asked these questions to my vanquished trinitarian foes and they were silent.

    How hard is it to post an answer to a question when you know you have the right answer?

    Ahh.

    But you don’t have the right answer. And you are looking for the safe answer.

    Jeez. To think that you were debating Mr David Kemball-Cook, a much-learned man than me.

    Please do not think it is pathetic for someone like you to be bested by someone like me. Will your pride manage it? But if you are really searching for the truth in the Bible, wouldn’t you feel relieved when somebody has opened your eyes and you were able to sneak a peek at the truth? Have faith, trinitarian. Surely all the church fathers and all the saints with the 10 billion trinitarians cannot be wrong.

    I offer you the truth in the Bible as the people in the Bible explained them. You just have to pray to God and hope you can make the connections, as I did.

    Actually one non-trinitarian I debated online finally posted verses from the Bible as their creed and asked me to find what is unbiblical about them. I told him even the Devil quoted the Scriptures. He said their faith does not believe in hell where persons are punished for eternity for sins that were committed in a finite amount of time. I told him then that the demons must be forgiven too because their sins were not committed in an infinite amount of time. He said demons are not persons that’s why they will not be forgiven. I said of course demons are persons. Maybe he meant demons are not humans. He quit.

    You disappoint me. But it is better to be disappointing than to be proven wrong, for you. Because you will never accept that the trinity is actually a lie, and all this time it has been a lie. Like I told you, you cannot decide to reject the trinity because it cannot be defended as rational and biblical. God has to decide if he will let you see and accept the truth. It is not by our own effort or desire that we are saved but by the grace of God. God decides.

    So if you still love the trinity even if you cannot defend it as rational or biblical, I don’t blame you trinitarian. It is not your choice but God’s choice.

    Besides most of your beloved friends believe the trinity. You will be in pleasant company even in Hell for eternity. I have to say that. Sorry trinitarian.

    Peace.

  27. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    actually don’t attempt to prove that Jesus is three-person being, Jehovah is a three-person being and the Spirit is a three-person being. Otherwise, your God the trinity will be a nine-person being.

    Just saying.

    Peace.

  28. Anonymous says:

    ” gilchrist pc mendross says:Why is the spirit of Jehovah a separate person from Jehovah himself? Does that mean your own spirit is a separate person from you the human? Does that mean that the spirit of Jesus is a different person from Jesus the Spirit? Doesn’t having the Holy Spirit as the spirit of Jesus and Jehovah contradict your argument for the trinity that it is three persons in one being? The spirit of God is the spirit of Jesus and Jehovah. Two spirits in one spirit is contradictory using your trinitarian arguments. ”

    Different from Greek, in Hebrew there are distinctions between Nephes for internal spirit and Ruwach for external spirit. Spirit or Ghost can refer to energy of strengthening. The words of God are spirits. A holy spirit is not indwelling the soul whose sin is not imputed. After sin is imputed the old needs to be rejuvenated or refilled with the new.

  29. Anonymous says:

    “ 5. How did Jesus in his words written in the Bible deny his apparent deity when trinitarians cite John 1:1? How did Jesus deny his divinity even though Jehovah, the prophets and the apostles call him God? “

    Jesus just claims being the Son of God, okay. Jesus is not one of the Gods of Ps 82 because “Elohim” that is used in Ps 82 is for kings, judges, priests – that is the mortal rulers of Jews – not for the ordinary fellow.
    Jesus is not either of those rulers.
    Jesus is not Levi, not member of Sanhedrin, not a king.

    However, some names like Ezekiel, Daniel, Gabriel, Michael, Immanuel, even Elgibbor, are just glory for a local God “El” (God in Levantine tongues), but Jah or Jehovah doesn’t like to be a local God. Jehovah is the God of gods, hence Jehovah must be universal God.

    Jehovah wants all Hebrews to gradually stop adopting the local Levantine language when discussing a serious theology, hence they should begin using the name Jehovah of Jah for the God of all.
    Jehovah is name from Heaven whereas God or Theos or Elohim is name made by the local tribes. In the Bible, Jehovah is divine-designed name.

    Neither Immanuel nor Elgibbor are called Elohim. However Moses is called Elohim – local god – because Moses is a judge.

    Elohim in Psalm 82 is for the mortal rulers of Jews.
    The Book of Hebrew honored Israel’s king as “Elohim” but Jesus is not a king till his death. Hence the designation of “Gods” in Heb.1:8-10, John 10:33-35 and Ps.82:1-5 is not suitable for Jesus.

  30. Anonymous says:

    “ Do you actually believe that the Holy Spirit comes into a person ONLY AT OR AFTER BAPTISM? ”

    It (Holy Ghost) and an angel descend down upon Cornelius because of his exceptional prayers to God – whom he knows without learning from Jesus and church – and his charities to the needy before the time of his baptism (Acts 10:31).
    Cornelius is baptised in name of Christ only – instead of other names of Father and Spirit -, it is the valid interpretation of baptismal formula (Mt 28:19) according to the apostolic tradition. However later Christians corrected the tradition.

  31. madmanna says:

    “Just to make it easier for you to find a response, just answer these eleven points about the trinity.”

    ok, that makes things simpler. If you can beat me in debate kudos to you. I can only answer a question if the bible answers it too. I will do my best. I have little time but I will post each of your questions as a separate blog post and my answer included.

    I would say in general about unitarians and non-trinitarians in general is that they argue by analogy from creation to what they claim must be true about God. Many of their arguments reduce to “this is what we know about created things therefore God must be like this”.

    A created person or being is like this therefore God must be like this.

    Then they have to spin the clear and simple statements of the bible to mean something that is not clear and simple, such as Hebrews chapter 1.

    peace

  32. madmanna says:

    The concepts of the plural of majesty and the unitarian agent, not 007 but someone else, are both attempts to avoid facing the unpleasant truth.

    The agent of course does nothing but we are made to believe that he is doing something. He is like a puppet who appears to be alive but only because someone is pulling his strings. Children believe this but we as adults know better.

  33. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Well, as you can see I do not possess knowledge of specific distinctions or definitions of words used in the Bible. All I know when I interpret the sentences in the Bible is what the Bible says in how to interpret it: Do not go beyond what is written. The elders of the early church checked if salvation of the Gentiles is possible by looking at the words written in the Scriptures. That is it.
    Now back to your point that ” A created person or being is like this therefore God must be like this.”
    Aren’t we created in the image of God? Isn’t Jesus the complete representation of God ( something like that ) Don’t you trinitarian says that Jesus is God because Jesus says once you saw him, you have seen the Father?
    And now you tell me we can’t be, Jesus can’t be like God. Well, don’t you trinitarians say Jesus is not created? Jeez. How is Jesus a three-person being then? If God is a three-person being, how is Jesus a three-person being then?
    Jeez trinitarian. This is how you say that when there are verses that unitarians don’t understand about how you think Jesus is God, they just disregard it ( like your theory of the second person of the unitarian God, not sure how it is written ). Like what you did now. Sure, “this is what we know about created things therefore God must be like this”.
    Jeez, trinitarian. Any school kid knows that NOBODY IS ACTUALLY LIKE GOD. jehovah says in so many ways and in so many times that there is nobody like him.
    Where is your proof-text in the OT that God is a three-person being?
    Do you need a council to help you understand the Bible, because you people don’t understand the teachings of Jesus Christ. You insult the trinitarians because you have got almost all the church authorities supporting the trinity. But if you notice, those biblical authorities are not the persons found in the Bible. Nobody says God is exactly a three-person being. The jews believe in they see a one-person God. Where is your proof-text that they see a three-person God?
    Please. plural of majesty and the unitarian agent. DONT YOU PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THE APOSTLES ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOD BECAUSE YOUR OTHER GOD HAS REVEALED EVERYTHING TO THEM? Don’t you read your Bible? But you don’t understand.
    That is clear.
    IF YOU REALLY UNDERSTAND THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST AND HIS APOSTLES, USE THEIR WORDS AND STATEMENTS AS THEY DESCRIBE GOD. Didn’t the Luke author wrote his book so that we can be certain of things that were taught to us? WE DO NOT HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE NATURE AND IDENTITY OF GOD. Don’t you get that, trinitarian? The secrets of the mysteries of the kingdom of God are given to the saved, not to those who are not. That is why you create your own understanding with your own words because clearly you do not understand the Bible that you cannot use thew words of Jesus and the apostles to preach about the nature and identity of God.
    Peace.

  34. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ Anonymous, now I can see that you are a Jehovah’s witness. Was once a Jehovah’s witness.
    No Hell, the 144000 guys in Revelation are actually your special group of leaders or something like that.
    All I know in interpreting the Bible is what it says how to interpret it.
    DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.
    Peace.

  35. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ blogmaster I can only answer a question if the bible answers it too.
    so the three-person identity and nature of God is not clearly addressed and discussed and preached by Jesus and his apostles that’s why your tribe has to create many councils to answer those questions regarding the nature of Jesus.
    CANT YOU SEE IT?
    Don’t people in those councils CANNOT EXPLAIN FROM THE BIBLE HOW GOD CAN BE A ONE-PERSON BEING AND YET JESUS IS CALLED GOD BY THE PROPHET, JEHOVAH AND THE APOSTLES?
    They don’t understand how to explain it, just like you using the words of Jesus and his apostles.
    What amount of time are you talking about?
    I wrote my post on the arguments against the biblical validity of the trinity in 90 minutes flat. And you a much learned defender of the trinity cannot post your answers to those questions in 90 minutes or less?

    Like I said, blogmaster. You don’t know the right answer. And you are looking for the safe answer.

    And the safe answer you just gave me I destroyed completely. You say A created person or being is like this therefore God must be like this. You contradict yourself.

    Hahaha. No offense, blogmaster. You are not a person of authority in your church, are you. I don’t want you to lose your credibility and integrity in front of them as I demolish your trinitarian arguments?

    Didn’t I warn you not to debate slowly or swiftly with me? I destroy the arguments of the trinitarians with their own words, thru the grace of Jehovah who opens my eyes.

    Cmon, write down your answers so I can destroy them with the grace of my God.

    Ahh. Are you really asking help from some of your trinitarian tribe that you cannot answer them now? Wow, like a council of Nicea when nobody can explain that Jesus can be called God and all those stuff and still have a one-person God? I am sorry you are beginning to see your trinitarian world collapse.

    Cmon, answer.

    hahaha. Don’t let my posts bother you so much. You still have a life to live, even if you worship is a lie.

    sorry blogmaster.

    Peace

  36. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ anonymous,
    what do you mean However later Christians corrected the tradition.
    So it was a wrong tradition before and they corrected it.
    Jeez, you don’t really understand what you are saying? Are you just copying and pasting online posts of relevant articles that you don’t really understand?
    THAT IS CLEAR FROM WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
    Sorry, anonymous.
    Peace.

  37. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    correction blogmaster You insult the trinitarians because you have got almost all the church authorities supporting the trinity.
    I meant you insult the unitarians.
    I am not a unitarian.
    Peace

  38. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    correction again blogmaster Don’t people in those councils CANNOT EXPLAIN FROM THE BIBLE HOW GOD CAN BE A ONE-PERSON BEING AND YET JESUS IS CALLED GOD BY THE PROPHET, JEHOVAH AND THE APOSTLES?
    I meant those people.

  39. madmanna says:

    Do I have to get all these flooders here?

    Too many statements to answer. It seems like my blog has a magical attraction for the mentally deranged.

  40. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Thank you. are you referring to me, blogmaster?

    Wow, a much learned man of God of the trinitarian tribe is actually calling me mentally deranged.

    WOW.

    HOW LOW CAN YOU GO IF YOUR IGNORANCE OF THE TRUE MEANING OF THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST AND HIS APOSTLES IS EXPOSED FOR ALL TO SEE?

    Blogmaster. Did you post anywhere here in your blog that mentally deranged are not allowed to post? How easy it must be to debate a mentally deranged person who pretends to know the Bible.

    Cmon, then. Stop this name calling. Are you certified to identify mentally deranged people from their posts in your blog? I don’t see that anywhere in your blog, blogmaster.

    People in your tribe do not call those who debate them mentally deranged if they ( your trinitarian tribe ) can show how mentally deranged those arguments are. No need for name-calling.

    But you cannot, blogmaster.

    Give me your answers then so I can demolish them.

    From the Bible it is said “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.” Coming from you I can say thank you as that is my badge of honor or membership with those christians who were persecuted by the Jews.

    I have been called the Son of the Devil by the wife of a deacon in a baptist Church because they cannot defend the deity of Christ thru the words written in the Bible. Just like you, o wise and learned leader of the trinitarian tribe.

    At first you are in denial. You say A created person or being is like this therefore God must be like this. I say but Jesus is not a created being according to your tribe. How is it that Jesus is not a three-person being then? Why is Jesus just a third of a being then? Using your own trinitarian arguments, blogmaster. Not mine.

    Now you are in anger. You say It seems like my blog has a magical attraction for the mentally deranged.

    Let us wait for the third stage then. Bargaining. The more you defend your trinity, the more you will realize it is a lie, blogmaster.

    After bargaining, is depression and then acceptance.

    Hahaha. As you can see I a mentally deranged man whose arguments you cannot answer.

    What will David and the unitarians say, blogmaster? What if they asked you these questions?

    Ahhh. What a scary thought. Are you going to call them mentally deranged too?

    Oh its right. They too don’t really understand the teachings of Christ. But my battle is with you. The unitarians and I have the same one-person God.

    I battle and destroy trinitarian arguments using their own words.

    You’re stumped.

    Where are your answers? Do you have to convene a council because you don’t have the right answers?

    Jeez.

    Anyway, let me go back to what you said. You say I can only answer a question if the bible answers it too.

    I say but you haven’t answered my questions trinitarian. You need to convene a council so you can answer the questions from the Bible.

    Where is your proof-text that God is a three-person being in the OT? I posted mine.

    Again, the bible is clear as to the nature and identity of the one true God. Your tribe of false teachers need to convene many councils because they cannot explain from the statements of Jesus and his apostles written in the Bible why Jesus can be called God and yet he worships a one-person God. Just like what you are in right now.

    Didn’t I warn you not to debate me? Did you suspect I was already mentally deranged when you said ” You’re welcome. All in due time.”?

    I forgive you for calling me mentally deranged as you are not certified to do so. Oh Jeez, only divine beings can forgive sin. Am I a mentally deranged divine being then?

    People will see now how you debate a non-unitarian. By calling them ( or me ) a mentally deranged man.

    In the Bible it says While Paul was saying this in his defense, Festus said in a loud voice, “Paul, you are out of your mind! Your great learning is driving you mad.”

    Hahaha. You must be a descendant of King Festus, trinitarian.

    I am sorry if I didn’t recognize you’re royalty.

    Admit you don’t have the answers. Admit your trinity is indefensible. wait, that is acceptance. Let us see you depressed then. Are you depressed already, blogmaster?

    You see, you started all this calling me mentally deranged.

    Just be silent and accept that your trinity is a lie. Or defend it. If you can.

    Peace.

  41. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Hey, i didn’t know what flooders mean. I have to look it up in the internet. One who intentially fills a chat room with repeated, meaningless sentences with the intent to annoy.

    How are my statements meaningless then? Of course I want to annoy you because you don’t tell the whole world how meaningless my statements are. You don’t answer my questions.

    Like I said, because you don’t have the right answers. And you don’t have the safe answer.

    What if David KC or other trinitarian use these arguments against you, blogmaster?

    What will you say then?

    You lose. Your trinity is a lie.

    Now everybody who follows your blog will know how you cannot defend the trinity. How you defend the trinity by calling those who debate you as flooders and mentally deranged without showing how their arguments are meaningless and that of a mentally deranged man ( like Paul, is it? )

    Just think about that. What if David KC and the unitarians use my arguments in a debate with your tribe? What will you say? All in good time. I can only answer a question if the bible answers it too.

    hahaha. You don’t sound confident, blogmaster.

    My goal is not to convert you. My goal is to silence you in your defense of the trinity. My goal is to present the true nature of God from the teachings of Jesus and his apostles for those who are searching the truth. Search elsewhere because the trinity is false. That is my goal. It doesn’t give me pleasure. As Jesus Christ said However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

    I forgive you, blogmaster.

    Peace.

  42. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says: No Hell, the 144000 guys in Revelation are actually your special group of leaders or something like that. ”

    The First Resurrection has 2 phases.
    The first-phase of the 1st resurrection is for 144,000 bachelors that are not defiled by woman. Immediately Rev 7:9 uses the phrase “After this” – the second-phase of the 1st resurrection – the servants emerge up before the throne, no man can count their amount. Apparently they are grouped into 2 sub-groups. The resurrected with a white robe. They are monotheists that overcame Tribulation. And the resurrected that holds a palm. They are every God’s servants that fear God, both small and great.

    Rev 7
    9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.

    Rev 19
    5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

    When 144,000 become the priests and kings on the thrones, the great multitude shall make nations around the earth until the God and Magog gather them to the battle.
    Rev 20
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

  43. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says: their faith does not believe in hell where persons are punished for eternity for sins that were committed in a finite amount of time. I told him then that the demons must be forgiven too because their sins were not committed in an infinite amount of time. He said demons are not persons that’s why they will not be forgiven. I said of course demons are persons. Maybe he meant demons are not humans. He quit. ”

    Quite similar to animals, the demons shall be gone forever. They are not worthy it, they are expandable. Even they can’t be change after 1,000 years of Purgatory in Hell.
    In the Bible the Hell is not eternal as a place, it will be destroyed alongside the Death, Devil and demons into the Lake of Fire. Fire of the Hell will just be merging with the fire of the Lake.

  44. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says:what do you mean However later Christians corrected the tradition.
    So it was a wrong tradition before and they corrected it.Jeez, you don’t really understand what you are saying? Are you just copying and pasting online posts of relevant articles that you don’t really understand? ”

    Spirit of Prophet is subjected to Prophet. Likewise, in the name of Spirit means in the Name of the recipient of baptism. The Spirit is never called “Lord”. Spirit that indwells a body is subjected to the body.
    Name of Jesus is used in baptism for reward.
    Only after a sin imputation, the new refills the old during re-generation of spirit by baptism.

  45. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ anonymous,

    hey, I was once a JW. at first i thought no hell is the right way for god to go and punish the evil.

    but then i realized, will it actually stop or slow people from committing sins if they know at the end they will cease to exist? We didn’t feel any pain or remember I should say before we were born. What is the difference after we die if there is no punishment or awareness that we are out of the sight of God? Didn’t Cain feel the pain when he is cast out of the presence of God ( not exactly in those words )? How can the wicked feel the pain of not being in God’s presence if the wicked will be gone forever?

    Hey there are lions who eat grass in the second heaven and the second earth. The animals will not be gone.

    Yep, all in hell with hell will be thrown in the lake of fire.

    Isn’t it the spirit is willing but the body is weak. So how can you say the spirit inside the body is subjected to the body?

    hey, at least you post what you can find somewhere else. Blogmaster badmanna calls me mentally deranged and my sentences meaningless without showing how they are meaningless. He is afraid that his arguments will be found faulty and unbiblical.

    Blogmaster said A created person or being is like this therefore God must be like this.

    I say but Jesus is not created. The holy spirit is not created. According to the trinitarian beliefs. So why is Jesus not a three-person being, if he is divine and he is not created? So why is the Spirit not a three-person being, if he is divine and he is not created?

    So you actually believe in the JW church that your God is one union of three divine beings?

    No offense meant. Like I told you, people will believe what God has shown them who or what he is.

    Peace.

  46. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ anonymous

    you say Quite similar to animals, the demons shall be gone forever. They are not worthy it, they are expandable. Even they can’t be change after 1,000 years of Purgatory in Hell.

    But in Jude there demons who are put into the abyss for judgment or something like. I think an apostle wrote that they will judge angels too, or something like that.

    Ahh, Jehovah puts his spirit into the saved persons ( humans angels demons ) in the new heaven in the new earth so they will not sin. Isn’t it written that it is the spirit that strengthens us, that makes us not sin? That is how the saved will not sin anymore. Who cares about free will and wisdom? Give me the spirit so I will not choose to sin.

    You cannot say that to the demons. Like all created beings, we cannot question why were made that way. Paul talking about the pots and pans. Let God decide whom he wants to save.

    Thanks be to Jehovah and Jesus Christ thru the power of the holy spirit for opening my eyes and let me see the truth in the Bible.

    I dread the day when I wake up and find out I cannot see the truth anymore. But God’s will be done, not mine.

    Amen.

    Peace.

  47. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ blogmaster

    I think you are done. We are done. The damage to your ego as a trinitarian defender has been done. You should retire. Move aside and let those who know defend the trinity.

    I am sorry for you that the all who follows your blog will know you defend the trinity against a non-unitarian like me by calling me a flooder and mentally deranged without actually answering all my questions about the trinity.

    Except one. when you said A created person or being is like this therefore God must be like this.

    But you trinitarians say Jesus is not created. SO why is he not a three-person being? Why is he a third of a being? Your own arguments for the trinity removes the deity of the Father, Jesus and the spirit. Your own arguments.

    I am sorry that I provoked you and annoyed you to the extent that you resorted to name-calling.

    I forgive you trinitarian. It is not your fault. God has decided what you will believe. As he has decided what I believe.

    May you have peace of mind.

    Goodbye.

    Peace.

  48. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says: So you actually believe in the JW church that your God is one union of three divine beings?”

    Everyone knows JWs don’t believe in 3 persons of God.
    Like I said before, God of the Trinity is theoretically an abstraction. There’s no “one Being” for him. Nowhere is the Bible ever showing three persons conjoined-in-union with one body. Not in the beginning, not for everlasting. At most he appears as 3 separate beings to Abraham. The Ghost hovers apart from God in the beginning. The Son sits beside the God’s throne. Finally the Lamb shall live with his Bride and the God will be alone forever.

    How can the Ghost be Jehovah if it is never called “Lord” in the Bible?
    How can Jesus be Jehovah if he downgrades himself below “Gods” of Ps 82?

  49. Anonymous says:

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says: Isn’t it the spirit is willing but the body is weak. So how can you say the spirit inside the body is subjected to the body? ”

    No matter how weak the body is, spirit shall not lose attachment of it till the death do them part.

    “ gilchrist pc mendross says: Ahh, Jehovah puts his spirit into the saved persons ( humans angels demons ) in the new heaven in the new earth so they will not sin. Isn’t it written that it is the spirit that strengthens us, that makes us not sin? That is how the saved will not sin anymore. Who cares about free will and wisdom? Give me the spirit so I will not choose to sin.”

    Strengthening the spirit means living it up always. Abstaining from sin alone is not enough to sustain or live it up. It is not static.
    (i) being away from sin.
    (ii) doing the righteous deeds.
    (iii) preventing the Evil.
    (iv) overcoming and judging the Evil.

  50. madmanna says:

    I forgive you trinitarian. It is not your fault. God has decided what you will believe. As he has decided what I believe.

    May you have peace of mind.

    Goodbye.

    Peace.
    ///////////////////////////////

    Thanks.
    I apologise.
    I guess all your gloating and boasting was getting on my nerves.
    ” God has decided what you will believe. As he has decided what I believe.”

    No the same God though is it?
    You sound like a oneness pentecostal or some kind of believer in modalism.
    May you find peace somewhere out there but now you are on the road to hell.

  51. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    Thank you.

    Of course, I expect you to say that I will go to hell. Isn’t that what most religions are about? Believe in our God or you will go to hell.

    No offense taken.

    Every time I do online battle with trinitarians or JW I get scared that I will be proven wrong, or there is one verse that I cannot explain to disprove your beloved trinity. I guess its just the juices flowing.
    Don’t you know how scary it is to be all alone in your beliefs and every else believes otherwise? You know everything connects but nobody seems to care.

    Like I told you in my very long posts I worship the same God as the unitarian but believe in a different Jesus. I am more like the trinitarians who believe that Jesus created everything else other than Jehovah himself. That’s why I am not a unitarian.

    I don’t have any church. But the Baptists, where my wife is a member, introduced me 4 years ago to the reading and loving the Bible. I read their books and bible commentaries and study bibles. But I couldn’t see the connections like you and they do. I don’t read the KJV, sorry. It is very hard to understand. Although sometimes I can find verses there that are useful for me in my online battles.

    Again, thank you for letting me post in your blogs. I was able to summarize my arguments against the trinity. We should forgive all persons who do not share our beliefs because they do not know what they are doing. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

    The Bible says You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

    Although we both know we cannot be both saved. Or let me say it that nobody will be offended: You will go to your heaven, I hope I will go to my heaven.

    May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with us all.

    Peace in Christ.

  52. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ Anonymous
    in your earlier post you said He is not one being but three beings that are separated always from the beginning to the everlasting.
    And now you say Everyone knows JWs don’t believe in 3 persons of God. So you really admit you have three beings as your God. Your one God is actually one council of God-beings. It can’t be one being of God because you keep saying God is not three persons but three beings. God is one means God is one united group of God-beings.
    one really means for you in the shema as united.
    WOW.
    Peace.

  53. Anonymous says:

    God of the Trinity is not one Being. he is scattering in a group of council or pantheon, many are one, one is many. One of them is the only true God. another is subjected to the bodies that partake it. The Bible figures out the idea with the scene of Legion of demons “Diabolos ex machina”.

  54. gilchrist pc mendross says:

    @ anonymous
    like i told you before many spirits ( demons ) in one human does not make one of them all together.

    you have a council of beings. yet only one of them is the only true god. you have many beings are one being, one being is many being.

    like i said you are not a thinking human. you copy and paste relevant stuff that are not the answer hoping you would hit the bullseye.

    how would anybody continue to reply to you humanoid is probably because you are just like that. Not worth saving. You are not a person. Therefore not worth saving.

    Byebye.

    Shut off.

  55. θ says:

    Shema in the Bible is testimony of belief of the Lord (Adonay) God.
    Shema doesn’t talk about Hypostasis, nor Logos, nor co-equality, nor Adon, nor Son of God.
    Shema is a Scriptural requirement of salvation, whereas Nicea Decree is not.

    According to Trinitarians, the believers before the death of Jesus went to a Limbo waiting to be released.
    Accordingly, all Unitarians before the Nice Decree, including Paul, went to 2nd Limbo until Athanasius and Constantine descended and released them.

  56. θ says:

    Addendum.
    Shema in the Bible is testimony of belief of the Lord (one Adonay) God.
    Shema doesn’t talk about Messiah (Christ), Hypostasis, nor Logos, nor co-equality, nor Adon (lord), nor Son of God, even not the Father, let alone the Trinity.

  57. madmanna says:

    Progressive revelation. Particularily through the incarnation. Also veiling before the incarnation so as not to jeopardize the mission of the Messiah.

  58. The Bible says:

    Did God knew about his progressive revelation, when He said He is 1? Not 3 Persons 1 God? Did God knew his progressive revelation when he said earlier NOTHING is to be worshipped except Him. Did God knew about his progressive revelation when He said He cannot be seen? does not die? He is not a man? etc.

  59. θ says:

    “madmanna says: Progressive revelation. Particularily through the incarnation. Also veiling before the incarnation so as not to jeopardize the mission of the Messiah.”

    Your argument of the Trinitiy is more consistently Biblical, and without realising it you hint the truth of the Unitarianism:
    First. Inability to explain a metamorphose from the Unitarianism to the Trinity is a loss, hence it is a setback or degradation. The Trinity is a set of man-made confusion which authored more confusion. It is still an unsolved mystery. Trinitarians admit there are many things about the Word that turn to be unexplained, obscure, confusing, still hidden.

    Second. Where was the Word in the beginning, when being “with” the God?
    John 1:1 is silent on this, but the Unitarians refer to David’s Psalm for answer.
    Ps 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

    It is a sweet Unitarian belief that the Word is impersonal, separated from God, and containable by the created things.

    Third. From the Gospel’s data, in the beginning there were the God and the Word. There’s no such a real eternal personality of the Father yet, only a hidden “potency”. The term potency is in the theological agreement with the basic Unitarianism. Eventually God’s old potency became the newly attribution of personage, hence person is something that is “generated” by God within Himself from potency at a certain moment.

    Indeed, the Gospel says the Word became the flesh, not the “Son” became the flesh.

    Fourth. It is a main point in the Unitarianism: the “person” (hypostasis) is generated by God so that there are the 1st person (the Father) and the 2nd person (the Son). There’s no yet a person in the Word.
    Trinitarians and Unitarians differ on whether the Word has had the will and consciousness (let alone “person”). The Son as person is generated later according to the Unitarianism.

    Fifth. Trinitarians admit the Unitarian belief that nobody worshiped the Word before. Unitarians use this admission as a proof that in the beginning the Word did not have any person yet.

    Sixth. Biblical data shows that the Word is unseen. But Trinitarian argue against the truth. The Unitarianism loved much to show Trinitarians that their belief has unsolved contradiction between Heb 11:3 and Heb 1:3.
    Heb 11
    3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
    vs.
    Heb 1
    2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

  60. Anonymous says:

    John the Baptist promises the coming of one who shall baptise with Spirit. That is the least requirement or token that makes one a Christian. On Christ’s mission, John just makes a simple reference of him to the Passover’s Lamb that has nothing to do with atonement. Had John meant the Christ’s atoning role, he would have called Jesus a Yom Kippur’s goat.
    Mt 3:11
    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    On other occasion, it is shown how the Spirit comes down to indwell Paul of Tarsus after he accepts to get baptised in Jesus’ name, without requiring him to believe in crucifixion and resurrection whatsoever.

    On other occasion, it is shown how the Spirit comes down to indwell a group of John’s disciples just after they willingly accept to get baptised in Jesus’ name, without requiring them to believe in crucifixion and resurrection whatsoever.
    Acts 19
    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.4
    Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    On other occasion, it is shown how the Spirit comes down to indwell one Gentile family of Cornelius, prompting them to get baptised in Jesus’ name, yet without requiring him to believe in crucifixion and resurrection whatsoever.
    Acts 10
    47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

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